CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.

POP2 Park & Ride Feeder

(31 posts)

12

  1. Roibeard
    Member

    I've been thinking about a POP2 Feeder ride from a Park & Ride site.

    The nearest are at Sheriffhall and Newcraighall, about 5-6 miles to the Meadows and the same back from the Parliament.

    I'm also thinking that if POP2 is to grow, that growth will come partially from riders beyond Edinburgh, so a Park & Ride option might be useful.

    Similarly, a single P&R might be easier to manage for all concerned than DIY, as the numbers might be high (1,000?).

    The Old Dalkeith Road/Dalkeith Road is fairly hostile, but the road is wide enough to manage a mass of riders coming in (with appropriate permissions and dispensations).

    Newcraighall, however, lends itself to staged departures/returns and use of the Innocent. That is, not a single block, which would exceed the capacity of the Innocent, or become strung out anyway, but a deliberate, sustained but throttled stream.

    At the moment, this is all in my head, so I'm needing some wisdom and advice.

    Am I barking mad? Is on street parking with multiple park (i.e. green space) feeders, like last year, the way to go? Is it too far to expect ordinary folk to cycle (~15 miles over the course of the afternoon)?

    An alternative would be to use Kings Haugh, again using the Innocent. A lot closer, but the on-street parking at the industrial estate (quiet on Saturday afternoons) couldn't match that available at the official P&R options.

    Any tips for who to speak with at the Council? Any other comments, advice, or thread drift welcome...

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. amir
    Member

    I was vaguely thinking of a Feeder from Dalkeith (need to settle holiday plans - usually in May due to work demands). This *could* go via the Sheriffhall P & R but there are a couple of problems:
    - not sure if the railway path will be open in May (retored railway). I am sure that someone from Network Rail will be able to help us there.
    - Sheriffhall Roundabout

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. SRD
    Moderator

    Hermiston has virtue of off-road path nearly all the way, but it would be tricky to take a big group along the canal.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Canal would be possible but require careful planning. For instance, strict enforcement of single file and walking across the viaduct having a front-riding marshall who could go through the obstructing bridges ahead of the main ride to warn oncoming cyclists of approaching dangers. Definitely possible though, wonder if you would need permission from Scottish Canals.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Roibeard
    Member

    I'd discounted the canal due to the numbers I'd dreamed up - 1,000 cyclists in single file would take up a mile and be extraordinarily slow moving! The soliton waves would be beautiful to model.

    Even 2 abreast, allowing 2m per cycle, the line is 1 km long.

    I wouldn't even have taken the Harrison Park feeder along the canal, never mind negotiating aqueducts and the like.

    Our (current) cycle infrastructure isn't adequate for these volumes, hence thinking (wide) main road.

    But I'm perhaps being over-optimistic, maybe there'll only be a couple of hundred...

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Roibeard
    Member

    Hermiston is also a bit further (6.5 miles out and 7.5 miles back) and has slightly lower parking capacity (450 v 560).

    Straiton is bigger (600) and the closest (4.5/5.5), but would require a descent/ascent of Liberton Brae or Kirk Brae! And don't get me started on the roundabouts at the bypass...

    For Sheriffhall I'd assumed that we'd simply mob Cameron Toll roundabout (with appropriate dispensation), but I can't see that happening/manageable for Straiton.

    But perhaps I'm being too ambitious?

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Ambition is good, and there is protection in numbers, however as ride leaders there is an element of responsibility towards charges.

    The agreed manageable number for a group on club runs is no more than 20, 2 abreast. Clearly that's a different kettle of fish as it's not really lead as such and the group is much tighter and moving at a high speed.

    There's no harm in aiming for hundreds of people - but getting beyond that you will be requiring proportionately more marshals than it would require for a smaller group, and the sensible option would be to limit it at an agreed upper maximum with agreed number of marshals and break it down into sub-groups. You could stagger groups of this agreed size to leave at say 10-or-15-minute intervals. Competent individuals can be selected from the assembling crowd to support the marshals.

    That's where having the Police helps as they can eave you through red on a junction and keep the worst of the horn-tooters, tail-gaters and light flashers at bay.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. Roibeard
    Member

    OK, so one argument for multiple small groups, moving like traffic. Actually, scratch that, as I don't think you were suggesting groups of 20.

    Anyway, we didn't manage that last year, and it probably requires 5-10% of the attendees to be marshalls/ride leaders (1 or 2 per 20).

    I'm not certain that we'll get that many volunteers either.

    I was more thinking critical mass like blobs - dominate the entire northbound carriageway, but get through in a one go, blocking junctions as necessary, rather than getting broken up.

    My imagination didn't really extend far beyond last year's experience with the main ride and the Harrison Park feeder.

    Even that was more critical mass than club ride (~120).

    So, if we're talking about limiting it to say a hundred per blob, is it better to have those blobs following the same route, or converging along different routes?

    Same number of marshals required, x per blob, but perhaps a bigger drain on the police? I'd perhaps lean to a single route here, but I'm open to persuasion.

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. SRD
    Moderator

    There is a meeting planned for later this week, at which we could perhaps get advice from police etc as to what they would prefer.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. cb
    Member

    The majority of out-of-towners will presumably be from the north and west so perhaps a feeder starting from the west side of Edinburgh would be more popular?

    (Even though, if you're in the car, going round the bypass to the south or SE doesn't make much difference, people may not see it that way)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I've contacted Network Rail about the viability of the off-road route through Eskbank. A diversion along Melville Gate Road to Gilmerton Road might be preferable to negotiating Sheriffhall roundabout unless people on "Amir's ride" are feeling brave! Car drivers can of course set up shop at the P&R at Shawfair.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. Uberuce
    Member

    A variable that we'll hopefully have in our possession by the end of this week is the number of police officers assigned this time around.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Roibeard
    Member

    @SRD There is a meeting planned for later this week, at which we could perhaps get advice from police etc as to what they would prefer.

    Yes please!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. Roibeard
    Member

    @cb - it's a toss up between distance to cycle (and route) versus ease of access for the assembly point. The P&R are, by design, easy to access, so it's down to the cycle route there and back.

    A westerly route requires more cycling (asymmetry of the bypass, to which they are proximate) and as a result of cycling east to the Parliament.

    They're already at least five miles each way - how far is too far? I suspect they may already be too far for families with primary school children, but is it too big an ask for others?

    I doubt that many occasional cyclists would even dream of parking out at the by-pass to cycle in to town, even if the route were perfect!

    So is this option just for experienced cyclists, who may not need hand holding anyway?

    Which is back to the shorter feeder ride idea...

    Clearly I've no idea which is best! Though maybe nobody could at this stage.

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. lionfish
    Member

    @Roi: "soliton waves along the canal" - is that a deliberate reference to the fact that they were discovered/described in the union canal?

    @SRD: Cool! When's the meeting? - let me know what needs doing - about to have a little more time on my hands (about to hand thesis to supervisor for checking).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. SRD
    Moderator

    Lionfishy - we are sending a delegation, including our chief Marshall. If you want to volunteer to help organise, please email and we can bring yu on board.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. Roibeard
    Member

    @Lionfish - I wish I'd known that...

    Sorry can't claim to be that knowledgeable!

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. BikeFan
    Member

    "Sorry can't claim to be that knowledgeable!"

    Me neither, but I'd cycled over it often enough before wondering who the esteemed Mr Scott Russell was, and why the aquaduct was named after him.

    Wiki reveals all . . .

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin


    solitary sign

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. gembo
    Member

    If hermiston park and ride is the selected muster point, it might be possible to split into two groups. One taking the canal route, eg with kids or less experienced cyclists. The other group could head through Heriot watt up to currie and come in the A70 or the WoL path if it ever dries.

    Bit daft to meet and then split up but might work?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. wee folding bike
    Member

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/New_Ground_(episode)

    Soliton wave in Star Trek - The Next Generation.

    They have been suspected of causing boats to sink under certain circumstances related to hydrofoils.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Bit daft to meet and then split up but might work?

    I think some people might be happy to choose between "beginner" and "more experienced" routes?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. sallyhinch
    Member

    My experience with cycling kids (having led family rides in Dumfries) is that kids as young as 5 can do five miles easily if they're reasonably good cyclists and it's not too hilly. But for those with balance bikes or less confident kids (or in fancy dress?) should we arrange a 'kiddical mass' P&R for family groups where the route is along canal paths, with a bigger P&R for other groups of confident cyclists who just want to know where to park and a decent route in? If we get 1000+, the chances are that will contain plenty of people who will know Edinburgh well enough to be able to lead off a convoy.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. bdellar
    Member

    I've volunteered to organise the feeder from Portobello. I thought we could do the same as last year: meet at the south end of the Prom, then ride up to Big W, then follow the cycle path the whole way through Bingam, Duddingston, up the Innocent Railway, and into the South Side, and across to the Meadows. Off road almost the whole way.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. sallyhinch
    Member

    Is there parking there? Would it make sense to direct families there?

    @bdellar - could you let me know if there's a facebook group or similar for this yet (or when there is one) so I can add it to the website?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Arellcat
    Moderator

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/New_Ground_(episode)

    Hard to believe that little Alexander Rozhenko is now a 6'1" tattooed punk rock guitarist.

    I've led a number of (adult) group rides (10-15 people) and helped co-marshall up to 50 people across roundabouts, but nothing of the order of POP v1. Let me know if I can help though.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. bdellar
    Member

    @Sallyhinch: https://www.facebook.com/events/447672315300588

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. wee folding bike
    Member

    There were two little Alexanders as well as the more grown up one in DS9 and they made that show more than 20 years ago you know.

    There was also an Alexander who came back in time and was played by James Joseph Sloyan who, among other things, played the guy who experimented on Odo.

    As George Takei mentioned a few weeks ago, Patrick Stewart looks much the same now so Earl Grey tea must be good for you.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. sallyhinch
    Member

    @bdellar - fantastic, added! http://pedalonparliament.org/the-route/getting-there/#feeder-rides

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. Arellcat
    Moderator

    ...not sure if the railway path will be open in May (restored railway). I am sure that someone from Network Rail will be able to help us there.

    Amir, Network Rail confirmed to me that it is likely that the path from Sheriffhall to Eskbank and Dalkeith will not be accessible by May. Alternative routes will be set up, though; I'm speaking to Midlothian Council for the details.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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