CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Tonight my carefully built custom Charge Duster mtb was alongside a "Team Saracen Off Trax" mtb on the train.
Both were being used to commute, both upright multi gear bikes, in theory off road capable...
I do have to wonder, is mine really (approx) £1k better?? (I'm not convinced myself! Despite being a bike snob as identifies by Mrs Smudge)
After all, they both transport their rider successfully...
Discuss (as they say in the most awkward exams!)
"Discuss"
Presume you thought so when you were contemplating spending the money.
As you know there's more to bikes than mere function.
Apart from the 'well it's my money' argument, presume you selected things for a combination of form, function, longevity/reliability and bling(?)
When Alan Sugar went for a ride with the cycling correspondent of the Daily Mail, he commented that his Xk Pinarello custom (he has a pair at each of his houses...) was noisy, clattery and twitchier than the 1k Giant the correspondent was riding. He didn't offer to swap though.
I could get functional equivalents of all my bikes for less than I paid, but I wouldn't
We had Halfords come to a cycling event at work. They brought two hardtail 'mountain' bikes with them. One was a top of the range one (close to £1000), the other was a bottom of the range (about £300). I'm not a mountain bike connoisseur, but to me they both looked the same. I'm certainly not sure there was £700 of benefits in the difference between them.
Similarly, my commuting hybrid would probably cost £1,300 to create from scratch. I recently rode a courtesy bike from GreaseMonkey which was probably £1,000 less. To be honest it was quicker and equally comfortable. It wasn't quite as nice, and I missed my hydraulic brakes but it was still perfectly OK. Certainly not £1,000 worse.
My other bike's a Brompton. You can't get a cheap Brompton...
So, in the words of the YouTube video, it's all about performance, and the fact that my expensive bikes (particularly the Brompton) make me smile every time I use them and that, in itself, is worth £1,000 to me.
"worth £1,000 to me"
Which of course may be what Smudge was wondering.
'Is this bike too good for me'...
As some people know, I like Moultons.
I have an AM that I've had for about 10 years (secondhand, very cheap), a bit tatty - because I use it.
About 5 years ago I bought another in a lot better (cosmetic) condition - cost a lot more too. The idea was to retire (sell) the first.
For a while I kept the second one for 'best' - kept it away from the rain, mud etc.
I realised that this was a bit pointless, as one of great things about Moultons is that they are general purpose/functional machines.
So I decided to live with/use the tattier one and sold the 'better' one. It went to Japan - where they are fetish objects.
Of course the first one doesn't have the same wheels, gears, chainset, bars, brakes etc. as it did when I first got it, but its value (to me) is beyond monetary 'worth'.
There's one on ebay just now in really good nick which will go for a LOT.
And will be worth that to whoever buys it - but that 'value' has little to do with function.
When I came back to cycling after a 10 year gap, I bought a cheapish (sub-£300) Revolution Trailfinder. It lasted me about 3 years, by which point I was frustrated at the low spec components (most of which I'd had to replace) and the heavy weight. I replaced it with a sale price Cannondale MTB and a bike-to-work hybrid Trek, both of which are much more satisfying to ride. I have seriously upgraded the Cannondale forks, and had to replace a few other bits, but the general overall quality of both of them still makes me happy about 4.5 years later. The only sadness is that they are still in such good order that I can't really justify getting anything nicer still. :)
The only remaining original components of my 2005 Revolution Continental Race are the frame and seatpin. I didn't know as much then as I do now but knew enough to not go for the absolutely cheapest thing available - what I might do now rather than buying a better ready-made model would be to custom-build, only sticking in markedly pricier bits where I now know them to be sufficiently important. Something similarly ready-made but thrice its price would be in much the same situation by now except that replacement or upgraded components would also have been more expensive to have replaced or upgraded. Where an increase in quality or price point would only bring about a saving in weight I wouldn't think it worth it - as a colleague said last year when he declined to be persuaded to purchase a bike one model above the one he bought for a further hundred pounds: the slight weight saving available for the extra money could be achieved more cheaply simply by going to the toilet before going for a ride. If a bike twice the price of mine offered components which would last twice as long I might be interested but that doesn't appear to be the way things work with something you use every day in whatever the conditions happen to be.
LivD - The only sadness is that they are still in such good order that I can't really justify getting anything nicer still. :)
Invoke the God of N+1, but be aware that you must answer for your transgressions at a future date, and that you cannot blame anything on CCE.
WingPig - The only remaining original components of my 2005 Revolution Continental Race are the frame and seatpin.
I really can't remember when I got mine, but it's mostly intact. What colour scheme is yours - silver with black outline text?
@bikefan - we are just about to move home from a small 2-bed flat to a large 4bed flat with a GARAGE. I think n+1 might be more possible soon. Although we do have 6 bikes currently distributed between hall, box room and bedroom 2 at the moment.... :)
Most of my bike(s) bear no resemblance to the items sold With that description (if they are actually sold as bikes).
As such I guess they are priceless, or more accurately unpriceable.
Mine's a commuting bike. It cost about £200 and gets me to work and to the shops fine. That's good enough for me!
I have owned, in my 28 months of cycling:
Raleigh Record Sprint aka black fruity: my sister's old bike, so free to obtain. Spent ~£400 on new bits for it, some of which is now on wee blue floofy. Could have spent half that, but I wanted bits I could abuse.
Genesis Day-One Flat Bar aka wee blue floofy/wintersaurus: bought for £450, down from £600. SPD pedals, road slicks and studly tyres, plus recabling/blocking brakes has been about £200.
Raleigh Esquire aka the iron horse: bought for £50 in car boot sale, donated/sold for three pints to colleague. Must get round to Golden Rule to hassle her about putting owls* on the chain today. Brake blocks and new tyres for around the same as I paid for it.
Cannondale MTB, aka the MTBeam: given free by husband of boss at work in exchange for helping them move house. Something over £2000 spent building it in the late 90's. Had to recable gears and brakes and buy road slicks, so maybe £80 of my own money spent.
Genesis Croix de Fer: bought for £1149. Mudguards for £25-ish, I forget the after-CCE discount price at TBC.
CarryFreedom trailer: ~£200 from LaidBack bikes.
The MTBeam is a cracking town bike and trailer-tugger due to the 2" tyres gobbling up cruddy surfacing, and the ~15 year old Hope hubs, Deore XT gears and brakes still being head and shoulders above today's budget kit, but getting that bike was such a freak occurrence of generosity that I dunno if should count for this discussion.
If all I wanted to do was get to work/shops at a commuto-pootling pace, I would have been fine on the iron horse. I got very lucky: it's in excellent shape considering its age and was built right in the first place, but the fact remains I could have been on the road this whole time for under a ton.
But...I don't want to commute at a pootle. Partly due to those silly round glands I've been cursed to carry around in that hideously ugly wee bag, and partly due to my propensity for sleeping in, I wanted something I could hurl rather than ride, so when Alpine Bikes made me an offer I couldn't refuse, I said yes.
Then I got into Audaxy stuff and wanted a bike I could sit on all day. As a side effect, I've got a bike that makes commuting a genuine pleasure. That's not to say I don't still love wee blue floofy; it's just that in wintersaurus mode it's a PITA to push those studded tyres around, so for the next few weeks I'll have a ridiculously overspecified bike for non-frosty days.
To get back to the main question: is it really worth three or four hundred quid extra to have a bike I can hurl rather than pootle? Yes.
Is it worth a grand to have a bike I can hurl in sublime comfort with absurdly good brakes rather than pootle? No.
*She's from Derry and pronounces the word the same way as the hydrocarbon-based liquid.
I definitely think the price of my Surly was well worth it. It is so smooth and reliable. I have never had any trouble with it. I have replaced the chain once and have never had to tweak the gears. The difference with my previous cheaper (but still decent) bike is unbelievable. Plus it is a bike that sees me through both commuting and adventure racing with suitable style and ease. Worth every penny to me.
I can't comment on bikes worth multiple thousands as I have never tried one.
Horses for courses, just depends on what riding you are doing.
My favourite bike since I bought it 2 years ago is my Croix de Fer. I've got lighter bikes in the stable but what I like about the Croix is that it's light enough not to feel like a complete drag on smooth tarmac but rugged enough to cope with potholed lanes and farm tracks with ease.
Think this must be "thread of the week".
Genuine enthusiastic explanations and individual learning curves that will interest others.
Might not convince 'you could get a car for that' people - they just don't know what they are missing (but might find out for themselves one day).
It's 20 months of adult commuto-cycling I've done, not 28. Add/subtract fail.
My Dad's humble Falcon Meridian(I think that's the model name, now discontinued, anyway), which I have bemoaned elsewhere, cost him £200 about a decade ago. It's my baseline for 'crap bike' and while I can tell/feel that it's a cheapo hybrid, I can't reasonably deny that I could and did ride it for a dozen miles without undue fuss while I was home. The shifting is ropy as all get out and it does not like proper watts being put into the cranks, but once you adjust for that, I could see myself using it daily.
Brand is important in terms of loyalty and price. many forumistas have replaced all components etc which sort of leaves just the frame as the bearer of the brand.
In the late eighties I fell hook line and sinker for the anti brand brand Muji. just another brand. The shop in Glasgow, near Flip had a bike that was crank shaft driven. Nowadays it will be single speed minimalism. Think online or London only. Not a bike shop just clothes,and cardboard furniture.
Tyres are what make the difference viz rolling resistance, journey times, p words etc Is my view.
I have a bike for shopping, a bike for commuting, a summer road bike, and a winter road bike. All are specialized, I don't know why. I tried a cannon dale I liked but had cheaper components . My original return to cycling was heavyweight EBC hybrid. Took a lot of damage, forks shot but till hanging on its hook and still works, if my son wants it come the summer.
"It's 20 months of adult commuto-cycling"
All(?) entertainingly chronicled on CCE, inc -
"The big test is going to be winter. I'm pretty coldproof as long as I'm mobile - typically it's got to be sub-zero before I can wear more than a T-shirt if I'm walking uphill, so that's a plus. It's the rain that's going to break me, if anything does."
Seems like you passed the test...
Hmm, interesting replies, my MTB is certainly good enough quality that I find my own bike handling limits long before the limitations of the bike, and it is reliable and pleasant to use.
Difficult to write anything about quality without quoting vast tracts from Zen and the Art (!)
I guess it's all down to the perception of the user really, that and the use the machine is being put to.
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