A 3rd class policy for a 3rd class nation
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Newsnight Scotland TONIGHT (was)
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Posted 12 years ago #
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<OT> The sun is over the yardarm at about 11am at this latitude...
Posted 12 years ago # -
(1975 - Some things have changed since)
Posted 12 years ago # -
1975 - Some things have changed since
Anth still has that bike :)
Our moneyed classes now drive Range Rover urban assault vehicles and Ferarris.
Posted 12 years ago # -
And McLarens -
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/mr-bean-actor-makes-biggest-ever-car-repair-claim-1-2779705
Ever wondered why car insurance was so much...
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Mr Bean Actor"
Good to see the Hootsman's cultural references are only 15 years out of date.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Is that a Carradice on the bike?
Posted 12 years ago # -
One of their more modern designs, most likely.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"But in 2011, he was unlucky enough to hit a slippery patch while driving a McLaren F1."
That's right, all down to being 'unlucky'.
Posted 12 years ago # -
It wasn't the first time he'd had to have it rebuilt either
Posted 12 years ago # -
My uncle had a Rolls like that and I cycled to school on a bike exactly like that (if it's a Raleigh Superbe). So that puts me in my place...
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yes, it was a shame the competition wasn't more equally matched in the debate. The motoring journalist tore strips off of the CTC bloke. And sadly towards the end seemed to be enjoying it.
Posted 12 years ago # -
...and let's be generous and assume that the motoring journalist, while encouraging cyclists to "just cycle on the roads", has never rehearsed all the usual reasons why motorists think cyclists don't belong on the roads in the first place. His generosity in that regard is increasingly rare. I wish the CTC rep had picked him up on that. If not segregated paths, if not the pavement, if not the roads then where are people supposed to cycle?
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Baldcyclist, that was all set up and encouraged by Brewer, who egged on Douglas, gave him ammunition, and even laughed along with him, put ludicrous points to Oliver (rain and wind?), and so on.
Contrast that with Wednesday's 'discussion' on electric cars where Greig (of IAM notoriety) was wheeled on as an 'expert' and given only the mildest of challenges from Brewer. No-one else in remote studios to temper Greig's opinions. Brewer spent most of the time nodding sagely and agreeing with him.
Posted 12 years ago # -
and pouting with what my mother would call "a wee sweetie wife's mooth".
Posted 12 years ago # -
Min - fossiliferous old dinosaurs ;-)
We often look at the Netherlands and Denmark as ideal cycling countries (know we have posters and viewers from both on forum).
Main cities abroad do have (car) traffic jams though - despite cycling infrastructure. But at least people have a choice - with rapid train, tram and bus routes for those who prefer to be driven.
My pro-cycling argument would be based on the fact it makes cities safer and less polluted for everyone. This will also allow us to de-clutter city centres.
The biggest trend in central Edinburgh has been more walking as public transport has become very slow due to diversions. From walking people may then consider cycling but only if routes seem convenient and safe. Think someone did mention the old 'active travel' phrase last night.
Posted 12 years ago # -
...and let's be generous
No, let's not. The Douglas/Brewer tag team gave every sign of being rehearsed beforehand. Normally a presenter will go through the areas that a discussion will cover beforehand with any studio guest prior to going live. As an old hand at the Beeb, no doubt Douglas would have demanded to be informed, and sought assurances he wouldn't be hung out to dry. I am not convinced Oliver in the Edinburgh studio was extended the same courtesy.
The psychology of the whole episode was akin to the two BBC 'insiders' in the studio ganging up on the 'outsider'. I did not once hear Brewer challenge ANY of the nonsense Douglas was coming out with. That no doubt counts as 'balance' overall due to the pro-cycling slant of the preceding film, but in practice it amounted to upping the 'anti' (to abuse a turn of phrase).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Do the "real" journos (Paxo) still think that Newsnicht is a little joke programme pandering to the noisy Jockominority?
Posted 12 years ago # -
@crowriver The one thing that really struck me is the huge sense of entitlement motorists clearly feel. The merest suggestion that some other group might get some transport cash spent on them brings out a very vocal reaction.
I highly recommend you follow @KatsDekker on Twitter and read this blog post of hers: http://katsdekker.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/british-motorist.html
She has a great line in the "Mothered Motorist" that I find highly amusing.
Posted 12 years ago # -
The Newsnight Scotland broadcast last night clearly demonstrates that the BBC really has fallen from grace. The presenter, Gordon Brewer, showed a clear bias against cyclists and failed to steer a balanced debate. Mr Brewer harping on about the bad weather in Scotland, “it’s raining all the time and it’s windy”, and how this will always hold cyclists back is completely misinformed. The main reason why people do not cycle is because of the real or perceived safety risk. Something that Alan Douglas, Motoring Journalist, clearly does not take seriously when he says “Why don’t you use the roads, nobody’s stopping you cycling. If you want to cycle, go out and cycle. You don’t have to have your own specific tracks just to go cycling”.
BBC Scotland must source better informed people to appear on their programmes as the level of ignorance shown by Mr Douglas was embarrassing. Stating that there has always been a culture of cycling in Holland, which there is not in Scotland, just proves his lack of knowledge on the topic – Holland was not a cycling nation 30-40 years ago. They have worked hard to achieve the levels of cycling that they now see and Scotland must now too work hard to achieve this. Then for Mr Douglas to go on to say that when it comes to extra investment, cycling must take its place with everything else (and implying that money would be better spent on more nurses, healthcare and welfare) just proves that he fails to see the bigger picture. Two thirds of the Scottish population are overweight or obese and rates of diabetes are soaring; we are sitting on a ticking health time bomb. Encouraging more people to cycle can help to address these issues and therefore reduce the need for more investment in the NHS because, as we all know, prevention is better than cure.
These comments have also been sent to the Scotsman and Herald Letters pages - it will be interesting to see if they are picked up.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Chris Oliver posted earlier in the day.
Unfortunately it got spam trapped!
Worth reading -
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9445#post-99524
Posted 12 years ago # -
when it comes to extra investment, cycling must take its place with everything else
Everything else including billions for roads. There is plenty of money to go around, it's just being spent on entirely the wrong things. The amounts required for a huge increase in cycling investment are negligible compared to even a single road project like the A9 doubling (£3bn)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Guys, if you weren't happy about how this discussion was handled please tell the BBC. They won't realise how out of touch they are unless we tell them. But like politicos they do actually listen when people take the time to complain.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wouldn't worry about the content of the interview, the real revelation is that it happened at all. Could anyone imagine Scottish cycle campaigners making national news programmes even a couple of years ago - I certainly can't.
I think a serious jump has been made here - cyclists are no longer being ignored by broadsheet/serious media types. Most campaigns face ridicule when they start to make any serious headway - think smoking ban for the prime example. Yes, it can take years to overturn these entrenched views, but it can be done.
Well done to Magnatom and Chris Oliver.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@ Sustrans Scotland
Sounds like a skewed debate, for sure, but the motoring journalist wasn't totally wrong. One of the key reasons the Netherlands has such a strong cycling culture is because it's always had a strong cycling culture. National identity has been wrapped up with cycling since early 1900s. See http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/why-is-cycling-popular-in-the-netherlands-infrastructure-or-history/
Now, there was some fall-off in cycling infra provision in 50s and 60s and then masses were put in during 70s, 80s and right through to today but the Netherlands didn't start from scratch, far from it. Even though cycling modal share had dropped in most Dutch towns and cities it was still far higher than anything in Britain, even during peak years of cycling in Britain.
This is not my opinion, it's the opinion of the Dutch EU official who penned the guest editorial at the link above.
And I agree about the importance of being interviewed. Definitely good to keep cool, especially when in a remote studio when the interviewer has the upper hand, and knows it (I've been there, done that). The fact you're being invited on is key, and more will come. The vitriol from the antis is par for the course.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sustrans,
Holland was not a cycling nation 30-40 years ago.
This data seems to contradict that and I've seen similar graphs elsewhere.
http://drawingrings.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/historic-cycling-rates-in-netherlands.html
Even at the lowest in the early '70s NL had more km/person than Scotland did in the '50s before petrol stopped being rationed and cars became more common.
Posted 12 years ago # -
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CyclingSurgeon (@CyclingSurgeon)
08/02/2013 17:27
@magnatom @NewsnightScot @BBCDavidMiller I'd take Alan Douglas & Gordon Brewer cycling on the A9, I bet they would not come!"
Posted 12 years ago # -
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David Hembrow (@DavidHembrow)
08/02/2013 20:15
Count the bikes in Assen city centre on a snowy day:[+] Embed the video | Video Download Get the Flash Video "
Posted 12 years ago # -
"
there was some fall-off in cycling infra provision in 50s and 60s and then masses were put in during 70s, 80s and right through to today but the Netherlands didn't start from scratch, far from it"
[+] Embed the video | Video Download Get the Flash Video Posted 12 years ago # -
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David Miller (@BBCDavidMiller)
08/02/2013 20:30
People cycle more in the Netherlands simply because the weather's better. Allegedly. If you believe that, watch this:"
David Hembrow link above.
Wonder why he says "Allegedly"...
Posted 12 years ago #
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