"
Edinburgh Council (@Edinburgh_CC)
16/02/2013 10:30
Should 40mph city roads become 30mph, or should we review these on a case-by-case basis? #edintransport #edintravel
"
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Should 40mph city roads become 30mph"
(26 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
-
You gotta love the way some of these questions are worded: Even though I agree with most of what they are trying to achieve it seemsa waste of time to design a survey which is only ever going to give you the answers you want.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Posted 12 years ago #
-
Yes, except for those which should become 20mph limits.
Haven't followed the link, my suspicion is that ot would only depress me :-/
Posted 12 years ago # -
Great clip, Arelicat. I too get tired of government consultations which rig the questions to get what they want!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Of course @crowriver the real trick is to write the consultations!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Should 40mph city roads become 30mph, or should we review these on a case-by-case basis? #edintransport #edintravel
"We'd like to make our city safer by looking again at 40mph limits where you live and your children play. Would you be in favour of this?"
"Up to 80% of heavy goods vehicles are not road-legal*. Are you comfortable with these drivers travelling past your front garden at 40mph? Would you support a review of this situation?"
The possibilities are limitless. Unfortunately when it comes to political leadership, well... this is Edinburgh.
* exact random stat not precise. There was a topic recently.
Posted 12 years ago # -
40mph to 30mph for nearly all city streets inside the bypass is on the agenda far tomorrow's TEC.
You can guess what the Tories think of it...
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1232770784432721922?s=19
Posted 5 years ago # -
Posted 5 years ago #
-
The police deputation said that there may be resource issues in enforcement, but were in full agreement that reduced speeds results in fewer incidents and casualties.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Green councillor Gavin Corbett argued slowing traffic could make a real difference.
He said: “If you look at Lanark Road, the data says there have been no cycling fatalities in the period, but I’m never on that road without thinking of the death of an experienced cyclist killed by a lorry in 2012, which feels very recent, and the impact that had on his family.”
He said there were also residents who struggled to cross the road because of traffic speeds.
“The question is: who has priority here? Is it the residents for whom this is a residential street or people passing through, who might save a minute or two on their journey to work?”
Posted 5 years ago # -
Is there a list somewhere of the 40mph roads which will be changed to 30mph? I can think of a few round here that are 40mph for a short stretch, providing little real benefit for drivers but creating additional hazard for vulnerable road users. Frogston Road West/Frogston Brae - just half mile of 40mph - being one, and Braid Hills Drive - a whole mile's worth - another. Comiston Road is nominally 40mph south of the Braid Hills Road junction all the way to the traffic lights at the top of the hill but IME not many drivers make full use of the higher limit. At least if they made it 30mph all the way then they wouldn't have to police the illegal night-time parking* (which they never do anyway).
* See Highway Code Rule 249
Posted 5 years ago # -
Lists here: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10940&page=26#post-323073
I think all of the ones you mention are being lowered to 30 mph.
Posted 5 years ago # -
From link -
“ it is proposed to reduce the existing 40mph speed limit on Braid Hills Drive to 30mph”
I’ve been led to believe that a 30 zone has to have streets.
Is this not true or is CEC planning to put some here?
Posted 5 years ago # -
I don't know the details, but I think it might be more true the other way round (i.e., "street lights means 30 mph speed limit"). 30 mph is the "default" speed limit in "built up areas", and the presence of street lights is one of the factors determining whether an area is "built up" (not sure if they're either necessary or sufficient). That means you don't need to put up repeater signs in a 30 mph zone, but I don't think it stops you having a 30mph "non-default" speed limit.
Gilmerton Station Road is already 30 mph, with no street lights, and it has 30 mph repeater signs.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Aha
Need to investigate further (or hope someone can find relevant rules/links) - have current need for answer to counter info from officials.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Examples aren't proof but Grange Road in Dunfermline is another example of 30 but no lights.
Posted 5 years ago # -
If the street lights are less than 185m apart the limit is 30mph unless indicated otherwise by repeater signs. Roads without lights can have a 30mph limit which will be indicated by repeater signs.
It's perfectly possible to have unlit roads with a 30mph limit but requires a bit more legal work by the council as they're not "restricted roads".
Posted 5 years ago # -
Interesting
Thanks
More examples/background welcome.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Frenchy: Found the list eventually in the EEN:
@chdot: Frenchy is right: street lights mean that it is a 30mph unless it's clearly signposted otherwise, no repeater signs needed - in fact, bizarrely, they are specifically not allowed in this circumstance (or that was the case in 2016 at least) - but I believe that large 30mph limit signs are required when street lighting starts: it's not sufficient to rely on people noticing that the street changes from lit to unlit. No street lights can still be a 30mph limit so long as it's clearly signed as such, which means repeater signs at the prescribed distances in addition to the large signs at the start the 30mph limit. So AIUI the council should be putting up 30mph signage along some of the new 30mph streets which do not have street lighting, Braid Hills Drive being an example (although I suppose they might actually decide to install street lighting instead?)
The regulations for all this and so very much more are available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual. It's far from the most readily understandable set of documentation I've ever come across.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Worth pointing out to that the 40mph limit on Braid Hills Drive is about 1 mile long*. The difference in journey time between 30mph and 40mph for that distance is around 30 seconds - but since it's impossible to magically accelerate up to 40mph and back down to 30mph instantaneously, in practical terms it's rather less than that.
The 40mph limit on the Western Approach Road between Murrayfield and Fountainpark, which seems to be getting more folks riled up at being cut to 30mph, is roughly the same distance. You can lose more than 30 seconds on that road simply by arriving at the Morrison Link traffic lights just as they are turning red against you.
Calder Road is considerably longer (2½-3 miles roughly I think) but the straightforward calculation isn't really applicable because of the number of roundabouts that have to be negotiated on the route. Arguably, the lower speed limit will help to cut emissions by reducing excessive from each roundabout.
Overall, the positives really do seem to outweigh the likely minimal impact on journey times. (Which on many of the roads in question would only really be detectable, if at all, outside of peak periods anyway.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
Why the pointless short section of 40mph? It will only take 36 seconds @ 30mph, 9 seconds slower than @ 40mph.
For nine seconds' saving, we're going to lose the simple messaging of consistent 30mph, a bunch of signs etc etc
“
Posted 3 years ago # -
It's not pointless if you are a Tory councillor looking for votes in the upcoming election - another victory against the "Clowncil" and their "war on the motorist".
Posted 3 years ago # -
I may be mistaken but I think that the section of the Lang Wang immediately to the east of the Burdiehouse roundabout is a 60mph limit. It may be that the 40mph limit is intended as some kind of phased speed reduction leading up to the start of the 30mph limit. Or maybe it's to dissuade people heading west from trying to get up to 60mph as quickly as possible immediately the 30mph limit ends, given that it leads straight in to a rather tricky sequence of bends through a fairly sharp dip.
Making Lasswade Road a 30mph limit is definitely a sensible idea. I often wonder why it is a 40mph limit currently, especially since a lot of northbound folks doing 40mph at the top of the hill fail to control their speed on the steep downhill section and end up doing closer to 50mph or more. In a build up area.
Gilmerton Station Road is a 30mph limit already, isn't it? (I'm not sure about the wee stub of Drum Street that leads to the new cycle path along the route of the old Edinburgh, Loanhead and Roslin railway.)
Posted 3 years ago # -
@ejstubbs:
Yes - Lang Loan currently 60mph. There will soon be houses along the whole length of it, though (which is the reason for the 30mph speed limit), so it's not obvious why a section is being left at 40mph.
Gilmerton Station Road is currently 30mph, but they did that with a temporary traffic order, so this is them making it permanent. The bit of Drum Street south of Gilmerton Station Road is currently 60mph.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Changing signs will make no difference unless there is proper enforcement ! Where I live Old Dalkeith road is a 40 mph limit but most cars that use it are going along there considerably faster especially early morning or at night average speed must be 60-70mph !!
Posted 3 years ago #
Reply
You must log in to post.
posts
