CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Driving to places to cycle

(49 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from LaidBack

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  1. Sparked by another thread, there seems a general dislike of the concept of people taking bikes in/on the car to places that they will then go cycling. I can understand that for many there's a 'why drive there when you can just cycle' attitude, and for most of us here that's entirely right, but I'm going to speak up in favour of the practice.

    Simple fact of the matter is, as many threads on here testify, and as PoP's existence gives credence to, many many people find the roads simply too dangerous to ride on. It may be misguided (or it may be based on things like the 'rubbish driving' threads here - I've been banned from telling my other half of any close calls on my commute). But if we don't have somewhere where people can gain that confidence first then they may not ever make that jump onto the road.

    My other half had got into the habit of cycling to work with me, and had moved on to riding home often on her own, then one morning an eejit in a Saxo deliberately tried to ram me, and gone was her confidence on the roads (or rather in the drivers on the roads). The missing links in provision from Porty Prom to her work a little off Gt Junction St saw the bike left in the garage. Then she broke her leg walking, and the habit of the bike at weekends was lost as well.

    But. New bike (cheers @thebikechain!), and we've been out a couple of times now. The latest was driving to Cousland and taking the Sustrans route as far as West Saltoun. Cousland is only 7 miles from the house, but on main and fast roads, with big hills for someone who hasn't been cycling much at all in the last 18 months. The off-road route means she can concentrate on getting back used to the bike with no worry of any traffic.

    And think of how many families there are out there who simply won't take their kids out onto the roads. It's one of PoP's stated aims, to make cycling safe for 8(?) year olds. Without, at the moment, traffic-free off road routes those kids might not get out on bikes at all - whereas again the off-road routes allow them to gain confidence, as well as necessary bike-handling skills. It can create a cycling 'habit'.

    And none of this is at the expense of calls for safer cycling on the roads - but we don't have that yet for many many novices, and it will take time to implement.

    As it happens some of the missing links for cycling to Mel's work have been filled. It's not entirely off-road, but the road sections are the easier ones to negotiate, and some more route-planning (even though I wish it wasn't necessary to have to think that hard about it) takes a slightly looping, but altogether pleasant, direction - meaning, weather willing, while I'm off on Easter Monday we should be trying the commute again.

    That's all a bit rambling - but in essence, I'm not going to chastise anyone for driving somewhere to go for a cycle.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    @WC that all makes 'real world' sense.

    I'm sure there are some people who think 'bikes shouldn't be driven' - but more who drive but don't cycle, ever!

    Then there are lots of people who cycle a bit and would like to cycle more.

    So better facilities generally AND better links/joinedupness.

    Your thread is partly a reaction to the discussion about 'cycle tourism is about having places you can hire bikes'.

    There are all sorts of unresolved 'beliefs' about how off-road paths (eg Sustrans ones) 'encourage more people to drive' v 'anything that gives people confidence to cycle is a good thing'.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. EddieD
    Member

    I'm never, ever going to justify using my car to take me (and others) with my(our) bikes anywhere. I've had far, far, too many splendiferous rides here, there and everywhere (whilst climbing Schiehallion yesterday I was reminscing about the bike rides I'd done using the car park as a base). My car usage is very moderate - almost no miles in town, but when I do use it, I don't feel guilty.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    Saturday - taking the kids to the races -

    Sunday - tandems on cars -

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. custard
    Member

    I dont see the problem really
    some riding is better than none
    Im sure everyone has their reasons
    try cycling a dowhhill MTB beast to where you are going to (attempt not to die) ride and then ride it home over any decent distance
    not so much fun ;)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. PS
    Member

    Anything that gets people cycling more is surely a good thing. The natural progression from riding on traffic-free facilities to quiet roads to busier roads [and even to busy roads] is there and, although some who just see cycling purely as a leisure pursuit may not take it, I would hope most would.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "The natural progression from riding on traffic-free facilities to quiet roads to busier roads [and even to busy roads] is there"

    Of course what is required is traffic free/quiet near to everyone!...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. Dave
    Member

    Custard - you've got it all wrong. If your bike isn't suitable for such a ride, the only acceptable way is to haul it on a second bike (maybe using unstoppable trailer technology).

    Sure, it turns a two hour spin round Glentress into an 8 hour epic, but that's life!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. Roibeard
    Member

    @PS The natural progression from riding on traffic-free facilities to quiet roads to busier roads [and even to busy roads] is there

    I'm not sure I buy in to this - it works for some, but if the dual network approach (cycle infrastructure for those with training wheels, then folk graduate to the roads) actually worked for the majority, we'd see many more cyclists on the road given how long the UK has experimented with this concept.

    I suspect that those areas of the world with greater cycling rates have simply accepted that only very few ever come to see that sharing roads with vehicles 10x heavier (or more) and up to 5x faster is a good idea.

    So those areas build the cycle infrastructure as if it's for the majority of cyclists, rather than the minority who soon will grow out of it anyway...

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. But even in places where infrastructure is superb....

    To whit, two of my friends are going to Copenhagen in June. I mentioned they should just hire bikes to get around - going into detail on everything Copenhagen does for cyclists etc. The reaction? Ooh, I don't know, I think it would be a bit dangerous.

    Roibeard, though, you're right. But if we don't have the infrasrtucture yet then we've got to rely on even that small number coming through - we can't just knock the idea on the head because not enough people are comiung through. Like said above, it's not an 'either / or', but rather strive for both.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. PS
    Member

    @Roibeard Oh, I agree.

    My comment was in favour of people driving to somewhere 'safe' to then go cycling. In doing so they can gain the skills/confidence to go on the roads. Obviously some won't, because they'll see cycling as an off-road leisure pursuit and they won't countenance running the gauntlet of motor vehicles.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. Uberuce
    Member

    My aunt was prescribed a bike by her doctor for the sake of her knackered knees and general need for fitness.

    Really she was prescribed any and all of the low impact cardio thingies and chose cycling, as much as anything because my uncle wants to lose weight too and they can go off riding together.

    Not quite sure what people that dislike drive-to-ride would prefer they did instead.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    As I once drove from Musselburgh to Eglinton for a ten mile time-trial I can't really object.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. Lezzles
    Member

    I'd have no issue with renting bikes if they were good value for money to cut down on driving our bikes places when we go on holiday.

    We're going to Barra in a couple of weeks time. We won't be cycling there since I'm 6 months pregnant but quite keen to pootle round the island on bikes once we're there. The bike hire is £14 per day for the first day then £6 per day after that which seems quite steep to me.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. Rabid Hamster
    Member

    @Lezzles: Suggest you hire a weird recumby/tandemy thing off 'LaidBack' for a lot less, and put it on the vehicle roof till you get where you really want to cycle! Any cycling is good cycling! The only dilemna is that you are not hiring and inputting cash via the local economy on Barra, but you could offer to buy some Harris Tweed off them!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. Barra Tweed shurely?

    Off to Lewis/Harris/North Uist in 5 weeks time. Solo loop of the Golden Road; and accompanied ride on North Uist from the ferry to the Balranald RSPB reserve planned. Various other solo morning rides will be had. All with our own bikes carted over on the roof of the car - but then we're staying in the middle of nowhere so hired bikes would have to have been got in Stornoway and carted on the roof of the car anyway...

    Plus, in all honesty, I just prefer being on 'my' bike.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. deckard112
    Member

    Have to say I think there's no issue with driving to ride a bike. If I want to experience different rides then sometimes it's the best way. It would be impractical and too long for me to cycle to say Pitlochry to then enjoy cycling round..err..Pitlochry.

    In other words I dont see an issue with driving say 20-30 miles as a minimum to go on a long distance run at my destination (and I'll do anything up to 100 miles on the bike).

    In addition, I also have kids (6 & 9) I'm trying to get into cycling and I drive down to Silverknowes where we can ride safely and for them to gain confidence.

    Quite why anyone would have an issue with this is beyond me. It's one thing to have an idealisic view of things but the reality is quite another.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    "Quite why anyone would have an issue with this is beyond me"

    'Historically' it seems to have been a way of getting at Sustrans - saying that some (and therefore all??....) of their routes have encouraged extra driving miles without much actual cycling.

    This may or may not be the same sort of people who think that 'all' cycling should be on road - on the basis that more off-road routes 'could' mean a ban on road cycling.

    There are people against all "segregation" on the basis that a) people should be able to deal with traffic b) cyclists might be made to use such facilities.

    Places like (for instance) Broomhouse Path should be so good that 'everyone' wants to use them (but isn't forced to) - unfortunately...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. PS
    Member

    Is it not just from the fundamentalist viewpoint that car use is 'bad', so anything that involves the use of a car is 'bad'; and to use a car in order to use a bicycle (bicyles being 'good') is just plain perverted?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    My parents have gotten into your sort of Sustrans-route cycling, NEPN to Leith, prom from Cramond to Leith via Granton, Pencaitland Path, that sort of thing and sometimes further affield such as around Loch Leven. However they will always drive their bikes to the start of the "safe" route, even me pointing out the srart of Corstorphine - Balgreen Path is about 500m (downhill) from them hasn't changed their minds.

    But for them, cycling is very much a leisure activity to get a bit of light exercise and they're happy with that, and I don't think me getting on at them about it is going to change their minds.

    However, give them safe urban routes to get to places like the shops or whatever and they might actually just use them. They want to go cycling, they just feel they have to go somewhere "safe" to do it, and personally don't really blame them.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    You have to drive to Kirriemuir to do the snow roads, unless you live there or take a longer holiday. If the old railway as turned into a path you could cycle to Glentress from Edinburgh I think. We took our bikes on the tube when we did the London revolution. I live next door to reasonable roads for cycling on but tht is not the same for everyone. With some perseverance most places in Edinburgh could be your stating point for a cycle but I also plan routes to avoid traffic so I conclude it is all relative.

    Hope the people going to the Hebrides get soft winds. Barra most people would only take the bike for a day? we got bikes a couple of years back in south wold for a out twenty quid for the week with tons of routes to try. North Uist has some great roads to cycle as does Harris so long as it is not too windy.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  22. Instography
    Member

    Oops. I've been doing it all wrong slinging my bike on the back of my car, driving halfway to work and cycling the rest. Not only that, I've been enabling another to do the same and advising other people and Government agencies that it's a perfectly viable, transitional or permanent way for people to blend cycling into their travel.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "advising other people and Government agencies that it's a perfectly viable..."

    Did the agencies listen??

    Posted 12 years ago #
  24. Instography
    Member

    They listened in the sense that they didn't stick their fingers in their ears and shout "la, la, la" but whether they listened in the more active, agreeing sense I couldn't say. They haven't been back in touch to cross my corporate shill palm with the silver necessary for me to do the sums that would indicate the potential of promoting such a plan.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. SRD
    Moderator

    At the traffic forum, I suggested that they could make it more obvious that park&rides could be for bikes. I was told the council wouldn't want to do that. But didn't get a sensible reason why. Instead they said, not many people would want to. I disagreed, as a colleague had asked me about doing it only that morning.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. Instography
    Member

    I wouldn't be cycling to work now if I hadn't done that although for a long time I felt like a crook unloading my bike and scuttling off before I got caught.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    It's been established on CCE before that parking and cycling is 'legit'.

    Presumably the racks are intended for people who cycle then bus - many?

    The lockers for people who drive/cycle but don't want to take the bike home each night.


    Ingliston P&R

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. crowriver
    Member

    You have to drive to Kirriemuir to do the snow roads, unless you live there or take a longer holiday.

    Nah. You can take the train, then cycle from Perth station the day beforehand (or Dundee/Arbroath). Sleep in the village hall the night before, and the night after. Cycle to the train the following day.

    I didn't do the Snow Roads last year (was on the 100k instead) but I did cycle to/from Perth and sleep in the hall the night before...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. Instography
    Member

    I can't tell if that's ironic/sarcastic or not.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    "Quite why anyone would have an issue with this is beyond me"

    Also there was a time when some people 'just' cycled as a sport and drove to the start of races - and perhaps did most of their training indoors.

    Of course this upset some 'touring types'.

    I think there are now more people with a more flexible mindset.

    People ride bikes for commuting, 'basic' transport, 'touring', exploring, racing and general fun - AND a mixture of those.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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