CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Dog strike!

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  1. Dave
    Member

    Ran down a dog today - straight across my path in broad daylight, owner nowhere near it. Tumbled off to one side with a howl but I stayed on.

    Much as I'd have liked to, I didn't stop to shout at the owner, settling for a "nice lead!" as I passed. Got the distinct impression that they didn't think they were in the wrong.

    Perhaps instead of slowing down and handling the collision I should have gone over the bars, called 999 then brought a civil case for injury & loss of earnings?

    The worst thing about it is that only the dog and people using a thoroughfare have "skin in the game" - the owner isn't physically at risk.

    The dog doesn't know any better (which is why it shouldn't be running out of control in front of vehicles) but can't help feeling sorry for it.

    All round annoying.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Whereabouts did it happen, Dave? Was it on a road or an off-road path?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. Uberuce
    Member

    The only place I was happy letting my bike-indifferent wee mutt off the lead where cyclists were around was Cramond and Harrison Park West. In both cases there's huge amounts of room for a swerve and/or a canine retreat.

    My sister would let her off the lead along the canal, but Poppy actually obeyed her. I suspect she's in the mardy teenager phase where feminism equates to misandrism.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. Dave
    Member

    Between Canonmills and 5ways on NEPN. I've got cam footage but no use until this eve (tbh it's not all that exciting. The soundtrack is wince-worthy though!)

    I'll try to rustle up some stills though.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Edit: I'm not assuming you were speeding, Dave!

    I like to bowl along as much as the next cyclist, but I also don't have a problem dropping my speed to walking pace or less if there's a dog ahead. If I even think there's a dog ahead—and on an off-road path there's a good chance of any walker having a dog—I'll slow down.

    As far off as possible I look at the walker's hands to see if he or she is carrying a lead or is looking to one side of the path. Of course, there might be a dead body or a pile of crushed diamonds or a well-preserved brick lying in the grass, but I err towards the likely.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Slightly worrying that no-one has yet asked, was the dog okay?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. MeepMeep
    Member

    Assumed from the following that if the dog had appeared hurt that Dave would have stopped to 'have a word' with the owner..?

    Much as I'd have liked to, I didn't stop to shout at the owner, settling for a "nice lead!" as I passed.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. Dave
    Member

    Ach, I just realised I missed a great social experiment. By not mentioning my own condition or the dog's, it would have been interesting to see which got more concern. (Still, there is Facebook and Twitter to go).

    I assume the dog was OK, insofar as I saw it getting up over my shoulder. At least it didn't give chase (being bitten would have been the icing on the cake).

    Re: speed, I'm not sure how fast I was going, as no speedo. It doesn't really matter, as there are only two points of view: too fast whatever it was (since collision occurred) and not an issue (whatever your speed, out of control dog remains out of control).

    I think I had slowed down to somewhere in between.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Definitely possibly not immediately obvious however if a dog had been hurt or not. Animals can, like humans, react in shock initially and not display anything wrong, then moments later be hobbling horribly. And hit with enough force for the dog to 'tumble off to one side' suggests more than a mere glancing blow.

    Plenty instances of footballers breaking legs and immediately trying to stand on it!

    As you say, I'm sure Dave would have stopped if there was something obviously wrong - but I remain disappointed that no-one asked about the dog at all. :(

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. Dave
    Member

    FWIW:

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. Dave
    Member

    Without any depth or scale, just about as useless as I expected!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. PS
    Member

    Face it guys, nothing messes with a P-B-P cyclist and lives to tell the tale. The dog's dead.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "I assume the dog was OK..."

    :(

    I'd have stopped.

    Just saying.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Dave
    Member

    Out of interest, what would you have done if it wasn't OK (beyond threatening the owner with the RSPCA or perhaps exchanging manly blows?) Call directory services and ask for a vet?

    If there had been no owner at hand I'd certainly have wanted to see it was OK, from a humane perspective. But ultimately it is the owner's property and responsibility and they were on hand to deal with the problem they'd caused.

    (Which isn't to say that I hope the dog is injured, quite the reverse. I'm certainly cold to the plight of the owner though).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Arellcat
    Moderator

    On the NEPN I wouldn't expect dogs to be held on the lead at all times. It's not supposed to be a dangerous area. The trouble is, the lack of motor vehicles and the favourable gradient are something of a lightning rod to cyclists, and having to slow right down wastes energy.

    Unfortunately, the notion that dogs must be under tight control at all times lest they find themselves underfoot or underwheel is akin to motorists believing that cyclists shouldn't be on the road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. tammytroot
    Member

    My sympathies,
    I like to think of myself as quite a doggy person, but they can be incredibly stupid around bikes.
    A couple of weeks ago I had a young border collie run straight into my wheel on the shared path near the Esk at Musselburgh. Braked hard and managed not to fall off.
    No apparent damage to either dog or bike. TBF, the owner did ask if my bike was ok!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I've no idea what I would have done, other than stop.

    Put it this way. Driver hits a drunk pedestrian who has meandered into the road egged on by friends, sees in his rear view mirror that the pedestrian is getting up, 'assumes' he's okay, and anyway he's with his friends who should have been more responsible, and drives on.

    Yeah, extreme, but similar. I'm just saying, if there was any chance I'd injured an animal I'd have stopped. Don't need to be capable of doing anything, I'd just have stopped.

    And look at it like this. Dogwalker sees cyclist hit his dog, not stop, and make a sarcastic remark as he passes. Now you and I know the dogwalker should have been in control of the dog, but really, the bald facts have reinforced that cyclists ride about without regard for hitting animals and appear to revel in it by making jokes afterwards and riding off with no way to be traced. It's an entirely incorrect assumption from the personmaking it, but make it they will.

    No character assassination here, I just happen to think in this situation you didn't do the correct thing after the initial incident.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "
    beyond threatening the owner with the RSPCA
    "
    Scottish SPCA!!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. Dave
    Member

    Even worse, I'm about to put a video of said dog walker on YouTube and blog about him to a wide audience, albeit carefully.

    "Speeding cyclist mowed down my dog then posted trophy video on YouTube" is no doubt how the EEN would report it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. lionfish
    Member

    Kinda agreeing with Anth here :/ I'd definitely have stopped and tried to see if the dog was ok, etc. Hope the dog is ok.

    My dog story: I very very nearly hit a dog once on the North Meadows path - the owner was walking down the cycle path on his mobile. Avoiding him, combined with being too close to the bike in front made me not see the dog until it was nearly under my front wheel (luckily fast reactions on dog's part and mine meant the collision was averted).

    Anyway, I guess people should have their dogs under control on shared use paths, but I also guess there's not that many places for dogs to be allowed off the lead which means maybe we should just let them allow their dogs off the lead? Also replace 'dog' with 'child' in the sentence and we see that it's really our responsibility not to hit anyone/thing regardless of how manic it's/they're being.

    In summary: The problem is really the complete lack of real segregated cycling infrastructure - we shouldn't be needing to share with pedestrians, dogs OR cars! (Imagine if people walked their dogs off the lead down the middle of Lothian Road all the time?)

    Anyway, let's all slow down a little bit extra when we think there's a dog about! :) (it's a bit annoying I know).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. PS
    Member

    A pair of what appeared to be mating wasps or bees bounced off my helmet when I was doing laps of Arthur's Seat on Saturday.

    Putting aside the fact that it seemed a bit early in the year for such flagrant in flagranti action, these irresponsible insects heedlessly veered into my path from out of nowhere when I was doing approx 20mph and all I could do was duck my head. But to no avail. I headbutted them.

    I didn't stop to see if they were okay.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Lezzles
    Member

    Legally a dog owner does not need to have its dog on a lead unless it is on a public highway. Keeping your dog under control is expected but this can be via verbal command and does not need to be with a lead Here is a link to the Kennel Club which will provide you with clarity on the law and dogs [url=http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/doglaw][/url]

    I was recently on the viaduct on the canal. My dog was on a lead, sat by my side and a cyclist was insistent on cycling past us. He hit my dog who yelped and caused him to stop and ask if she was ok. When I told him he shouldn't even be cycling on the viaduct and there were signs telling him so he was very verbally abusive.

    There appears to be a similar mentality amongst cyclists towards dogs as there is between 4WD BMW owners and cyclists. Lets try and see the issue from 2 sides.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. Darkerside
    Member

    Ditto lionfish/anth, particularly on a shared use footpath. The only reason I wouldn't have stopped is if the dog was well enough to try and take a piece out of me in revenge.

    Light googling would suggest you're not required to stop and provide information, but only because the relevant part of the RTA refers to 'mechanically propelled vehicle' and not 'vehicle'. S170 of the 1988 Act, for the morbidly bored. I'm not sure if this bit has been amended again, because this would appear to suggest you don't have to stop if you run a human down either. Odd.

    Still...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Darkerside
    Member

    I'm assuming you're reasonably confident it wasn't a long legged badger? If so the Protection of Badgers Act comes into play, which my work internet connection is stubbornly refusing to load up.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. PS
    Member

    @Darkerside No, I'm pretty sure these were insects. I wouldn't like to try headbutting a badger.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. Darkerside
    Member

    Ah, fair enough. You seemed unsure whether they were bees or wasps, so though I'd just check how wide your identification error bars were.

    Not a badger. Noted.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. PS
    Member

    :D

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. Dave
    Member

    Surely you would stop to follow up on those wasps? After all, they're basically children, and who would leave a child lying bleeding in the road?

    I'm now definitely thinking I should have gone for my 14 grand here?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    *sigh*

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. Dave
    Member

    At risk of further frustrating WC, am I the only one who thinks it's disappointing that we should jump to "what if the dog was a child", rather than "what if the cyclist was a child"?

    The dog is unlikely to make any fine distinction about who it brings crashing down. As there are a lot of child cyclists on this route, I'm not even sure this is particularly far-fetched (although in fairness, I can only think of two or three that I see regularly on solo bikes, rather than under tow).

    A child would be much less likely to have the bitter experience, scepticism and reactions of yours truly.

    As the dog's owner clearly wasn't controlling the dog, it may as well have been a child brought down in this incident - I think that's what I'm getting at.

    I wonder how the opprobrium would fall if I had recorded a child being hit, rather than being hit oneself.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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