CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street
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Posted 12 years ago #
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"The number of buses on the boulevard will be halved. It is hoped a bicycle lane along the pedestrianised section of George Street would improve cycle safety and further reduce travel demands."
Not sure how George Street could be the east-bound route for traffic but also have a pedestrianised section?
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Buses, taxis and cyclists would travel westbound along Princes Street and eastbound on George Street in a one-way network.
""
It is hoped a bicycle lane along the pedestrianised section of George Street would improve cycle safety and further reduce travel demands.There are no plans to cut car parking spaces on George Street.
"Posted 12 years ago # -
Easy, close the north side of Princes Street and the south side of George Street.
Question? Will they be ripping up those new tram tracks on the north side of Princes Street and relaying them, and moving all nessessary utilities, on the south side of the south side of Princes Street!?!?!
Eek!!
Posted 12 years ago # -
The plan seems to be to keep traffic on the south side of each street - freeing up the northern 'sunny' side.
An interesting side-effect of this (as mentioned by someone in the comments) would be having to get on/off buses in the middle of George St. But - they don't want to reduce the parking.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Mmmm, So instead of pedestrianising Princes Street a la Spokes, or George St as advocated by some on here, CEC prefers a little of both?
Not really convinced that this has any advantages over the above 2 options.Posted 12 years ago # -
I like ther idea of the mixed retail/food/residence of Princes Street. It's odd how this street feels so empty/desolate during the evenings sometimes.
However, we know how 'exciting' it is to cycle down it. The changes mentioned won't affect that. There could still be space to add a seperate cycle lane between the road and the new pedestrianized section. Just North of the current central reservation.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Another lunatic idea. This loop will mean that George Street will be clogged with traffic generating noxious fumes for the cafe culturists to inhale whilst sipping their cafe latte outside in chilling cold winds. Where are the cars going to go - or are they just being banned altogether - only buses, taxis and bikes are mentioned as far as I can see. You really have to laugh at this vision of a Barcelona type atmosphere with cafe and bars in Princes Street - this is Scotland for goodness sake where the weather can vary hour by hour from snow/rain/hail to lovely sunshine. These councillors have killed the centre of Edinburgh with there idiotic ideas and it looks like they are intent on fully completing that job."
Posted 12 years ago # -
I've told you before - don't read the comments!
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Don't read the [chipwrapper] comments" should be a new forum rule. It just upsets us all!
Posted 12 years ago # -
They're funny. And predictable.
Too cold for a cafe culture;
Will clog up traffic;
Pedestrianisation kills retail.My only wish is that the council had the guts to go ahead with grand plans, without listening to the naysayers, and basically just prove them wrong by the effect. The only time they've ever really done that was with the trams - they seem scared to try anything else now.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Proposals to cut city centre speed limits to 20mph are also being explored following successful trials in south Edinburgh."
Would be nice if they made both streets 20mph and put in segregated cycleways. If Leith Walk was segregated too, you could get almost from the shore to Lothian Road without having to tangle in traffic.
(Aware there is an issue with Picardy Place - Princes St not being part of either plan. But give it time...
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sssshhh! The commenters haven't noticed that yet!
(wonder if the trial results are going to be published...)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Don't underestimate the capacity of EEN to have reported the cycling bits wrongly. However further down the page it says "cyclists will be encouraged to travel on George Street". So I think they may be considering a segregated two-way cycle lane there? Solves the issue with tram lines for most folk - unless you are coming from Waverley, the Mound, Lothian Road, or want to go to Princes Street itself, of course.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I imagine they will move George St parking from the middle (currently) to the south side, end on (if they are not loosing any spaces) and then busses would eject passengers onto the widened paved Pedestrian section. Where they'd put any cycle path I'm unsure, South of the parking 9against the current south siode pavement) and you'd have peds popping out unseen into the path of cyclists. North and you'd have bus passengers queuing along the cycle route.
Perhaps best to have the cycle path ... well er.. I don't know, the trams have put paid to any thoughts of Princes St as the poles mean you couldn't route it down the centre, the north side will be ejecting passengers and the south side will also be ejecting passengers...
I imagine this bit:
"It is hoped a bicycle lane along the pedestrianised section of George Street would improve cycle safety"
will be quietly dropped and when questioned about it - will be labelled 'an aspiration', which seems to be the councils latest get out clause.
Posted 12 years ago # -
It's amazing, that commenter is saying almost exactly what they apparently said in the early 1960s before that street in Copenhagen was pedestrianised :-)
Edinburgh - 51 years behind the times, and counting
Posted 12 years ago # -
Not wanting to pour cold water over an idea that bans cycling in one direction, exactly where is our cash-strapped council getting the money to do this from? And even if they do, the last attempt at changing traffic in that area was a badly managed shambles that councillors couldnt defend so it was reversed. Given that this is due to be discussed in council next week, it looks like a leak or strategic briefing in order to guage public feeling. My own view is that they are closing the wrong side if they close one at all; why not have more stalls etc on the gardens side? The pavement is already pretty wide on the shops side, but its not a place I'd want to sit.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"... that street in Copenhagen was pedestrianised"
The Stroget? It's fab. A kilometre of pedestrianised fantastic shopping (at one end, it gradually gets scabbier the futher you get to the other). Then again, I don't know how many washing machines are sold there.
"My own view is that they are closing the wrong side if they close one at all; why not have more stalls etc on the gardens side? The pavement is already pretty wide on the shops side, but its not a place I'd want to sit."
Agreed (though I'm still of a mind that they should simply pedestrianise George Street altogether and turn it into a lovely boulevard. Princes St for trams and buses; Queen St for cars. But, that plan would see the parking on George St lost, and they are loathe to do that in case anyone with a car complains...
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I am really really angry about this and am having to take deep breaths to calm down!"
Posted 12 years ago # -
There was also the Council's insistence that post trams there would be no works in the city centre for two years. I think this is all just spin, and since it seeks to restrict my right to cycle, I'm against it. For once, the chipwrapper's commentards have a point; we need to come up with something better than 'cafe culture' as an aspiration when we dont have the weather for it most of the year.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Does the proposed ban on cycling traffic fit with b) under Accessibility and Interchange target under Objective 1 of the Local Transport Strategy ('particular emphasis on ...cyclist access to the station')?
Posted 12 years ago # -
"... we need to come up with something better than 'cafe culture' as an aspiration when we dont have the weather for it most of the year"
Other countries with similar climates to ours do very very well with cafe cultures. People seem to think it's a case of putting some tables and chairs out and if it rains you can't do anything. But in other places they have proper, good, 'brollies' (for want of the correct term) over the tables, as well as patio heater type things and screens sometimes for wind.
There are a few places in Europe I've eaten out in almomst freezing temperatures. And it makes somewhere a much much nicer place to hang out - lovely atmosphere.
I might be missing it, but where's the restriction on cycling? Suggestion is one way on each og Princes Street and George Street, with the possibility of segregation?
Posted 12 years ago # -
I'm still of a mind that they should simply pedestrianise George Street altogether and turn it into a lovely boulevard. Princes St for trams and buses; Queen St for cars.
+1 what WC said.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I know lots of people like to give the Council a good (and sometimes deserved) kicking. It seems wholly undeserved in this case, as the report to the Council indicates that there will be:
A TWO-WAY SEGREGATED CYCLE LANE ON GEORGE STREET
(see bus, taxi and cycle movements map, appendix 1).Posted 12 years ago # -
"Cyclists would be encouraged to travel along George Street – currently part of a designated cycle route – to restrict traffic concentration on Princes Street and to segregate them from trams/tram lines."
So, the question is - what does "encouraged" mean?
Legal encouragement, via road rules? No argument?
Or discouragement by demonstrating how suicidal it would be to try to navigate 2 lanes full of buses and tramtracks on Princes St?
Posted 12 years ago # -
If buses are to be split between G and P, presumably there will be a lot more walking.
Hope the pavements are up to the extra traffic!
Ought to good for 'side street' businesses.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@WC, from the Scotsman "The unprecedented shake-up – expected to be approved by council chiefs next week – would see all traffic banned from the north side of Princes Street and George Street, with a looping one-way system introduced to create space and help cultivate “a living city centre”.
Buses, taxis and cyclists would travel westbound along Princes Street and eastbound on George Street in a one-way network.
"; so no cycling in one direction along Princes Street, and possibly a two way up a hill 200 yards away. If it applies to the length of the street, how do you get from Lothian Road (say) to Waverly; sounds like you'd have to go George Street, York Place, Leith Street, unless the South St Andrews Street route is available. Anyway, if there is money around, I'd rather it was spent on a proper set of cycling infrastructure on Leith WalkPosted 12 years ago # -
I suppose signs could be employed to encourage correct behaviour maybe one with an arrow pointing to George st with bunnies and rainbows and another pointing and Princes St with a Scythe and if possible maybe darken the light and make sure its raining around the Scott Monument to increase the feeling of foreboding.
Posted 12 years ago # -
The doc that Morningsoder linked - have a look at the last two pages. They are cross-section diagrams of the proposed lane usage.
...interesting.Posted 12 years ago # -
And outdoor heaters would blow any CO2 savings from greater cycling immediately. Greens/Greenpeace have been calling for bans on attempts to warm the outside.
Posted 12 years ago #
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