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"Forth/Fife Circle Steam Specials" (etc)

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  1. Tulyar
    Member

    Just to catch up with @Kaputnik

    Steam was white

    Sorry to be pedantic but it's the condensing water vapour that's white ;)

    I was wondering what, if anything, they do to mitigate the effects of the sooty smoke when Tornado and the likes stop at Waverley?

    Apparently good-quality Welsh steam coal shouldn't produce too much soot. That's the sort of thing you want to burn in your steam engine to keep it performing well. As an aside, getting access to reliable supplies of good quality steam coal is an issue for heritage railways as the UK coal industry continues to contract.

    Can I commend the LMS training film "Little and Often"

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    A well fired and properly driven steam engine should be producing an exhaust which is clear for a couple of inches above the chimney, and then beginning the condensing process as a white/light grey fog beyond this. At rest there should be little more than a shimmer of heat coming slowly upwards, with the primary air and firebox doors closed down, and if the team is working together the boiler should not be blowing off, surplus steam - the exception to this possibly being in anticipation of a fierce climb or starting a heavy train, when the demands for power may well exceed the actual power producing capacity of the engine, and it 'borrows' by reducing the steam pressure. This was the huge mistake made when diesels were ordered to replace steam engines - you only get the specified power from a diesel but a good crew could tease well over 100% from a steam engine for that extra push.

    In short a dirty exhaust is a sign of a bad fireman, and fills the smokebox with unburnt coal as well as sending hot cinders/unburnt coal showering across the railway, potentially starting fires, making washing dirty, and getting in hair and eyes. One condition which can also induce this, is when the engine is working hard (usually on a hill) with the regulator well cracked open and the blast pipe from the cylinders creates such powerful vacuum that the fire gets pulled through from the firebox. Experience with Tornado suggest that they have got this boiler nicely tuned as it seems to show no tendency to deliver this wasteful and embarrassing tendency.

    Finally remember that just 6% (if you are lucky) of the energy being burned up in the firebox actually ends up pulling the train along - its the other 94% of din and heat which endears steam engines to their fans.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. Arellcat
    Moderator

    creates such powerful vacuum that the fire gets pulled through from the firebox

    The Class 9F locos would pull entire lumps of coal through the boiler tubes if you had 2000 tonnes on the end and were giving the regulator what-for.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Greenroofer
    Member

    Arellcat has just caused a small wave of nostalgia. I grew up very close to the then home of 9F 92203 'Black Prince' and have always had a very soft spot for BR Standards in general and 9Fs in particular. I just remember 92203 as being huge.

    ...and when Oliver Cromwell last came round the south sub, Mini Greenroofer was so excited by the experience of the 94% that Tulyar refers to that she was literally shaking afterwards.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "and when Oliver Cromwell last came round the south sub"

    Previously -

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    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    "

    I have always said if you could bottle steam, oil and coal I would wear it as a perfume. We are all a bit delighted, to say the least.”

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/flying-scotsman-back-on-tracks-after-4-2m-restoration-1-3995367

    "

    And similar scenes are set to be repeated in the Capital when the Flying Scotsman – about to begin a two-year tour of Britain – arrives in Edinburgh from York on Saturday, May 15 for a four-day Scottish “homecoming event”.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/full-steam-ahead-for-flying-scotsman-on-waverley-line-1-3996121

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @Tulyar, thanks for sharing the LMS stoking video, very interesting. And I learned quite a bit!

    a four-day Scottish “homecoming event”

    I think Doncaster has a better claim to being the home of Flying Scotsman. Gresley was an Edinburgh-born man though.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Tulyar

    Lovely. I wonder if my grandfather got that as a training film?

    Even when I knew him and he'd been a driver for years his time as a fireman left him with gargantuan forearms.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. Arellcat
    Moderator

    An excellent book, essentially 'how to fire an A4 Pacific from Edinburgh to London', is Stephen Austin's Elizabethan, from the From the Footplate series.

    It's written from a 1955 fireman's perspective and there's lots of fun historical detail about station layouts, viaducts, tunnels, lots of lovely black and white photographs, and lots of descriptions of exhaust steam injectors and water scoops and reversers.

    "The engine is swaying gently and hunting a little, while rail-joints fo by too fast to be noticed any more. She is now in a realm which is peculiar to the 'A4'. There is no other engine specifically designed to operate in this realm of speed, and few which can do so with the same smooth confidence.

    The station that just shot by was Essendine, so you can leave off shovelling and take a look around; this is about as fast as we will go. The indicator is quivering on the 100mph mark. Setting her down to 35% makes more noise but gives no increase in speed. Moreover, the injector is not keeping up with us, so either we must increase it and bring the pressure down, or she must be pulled up, and either way our speed will fall away."

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Greenroofer
    Member

    If we're into discussion about books on this kind of thing, and if Arellcat's talk of 'injectors' and 'hunting' is double dutch to you, I'd recommend "How Steam Locomotives Really Work"by PWB Semmens. Oddly enough, it explains how they really work. It was a revelation to me: it's a bit like having someone explain how to adjust your gear indexing...

    It sits on my bookshelf beside Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance and a 1980's edition of Richard's Bicycle Book.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. kaputnik
    Moderator

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    And while we're at it, it's worth taking the 20 minutes to (re)watch the British Transport Films The Elizabethan Express, depicting a 1950s London to Edinburgh non-stop steam express journey.

    17:00 looks like Clockmill Lane (tenements are now cleared away and there are workshops here) followed by passing through St. Margaret's Depot, suggesting these 2 quick shots are out of sequence for editorial purposes. Where the train exist the Calton Tunnel at 17:31, the now-demolished tenements of Amphion Place can be seen

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Darkerside
    Member

    15 May added to the diary. Mini-DarkerSide will be able to demonstrate his growing vocabulary which already demonstrates a distinct bias towards steam train terminology...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The Kaputchka knows that his toy wooden "doo-doo" that lives on the hearth is the same as the big doo-doos he waves at that go past the window on the ECML.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. HankChief
    Member

    Today's mad waving on the Balgreen Tram side path got the following results:

    1 ding ding - from 2 trams
    0 toot toots - from 4 Scotrail trains
    1 loud blast - from a Virgin 125

    The last one made us very happy.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    We used to go to the Perspex bridge over the railway in princes street gardens and all scotrail drivers would wave and root in the old days.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. steveo
    Member

    The boy still talks about the blast we got from a EC 125 on the bridge over to Carrick Knowe from Stenhouse.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Just in case anyone else is following it, here's the tracker for The Flying Scotsman's trip from London to York today:

    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59844/2016/02/25/advanced

    About 27 minutes late past Newark because of people on the line at St Neots - trying to take photographs!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. PS
    Member

    I watched this Timeshift programme on "The Golden Age of British Rail" earlier this week. There was some startling footage (to modern eyes, at least) of the last steam service steaming along the track while hundreds of punters wandered along the embankment and even the track bed, taking photos and generally gawping and larking about. Health and Safety clearly the individual's look out back then...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. Greenroofer
    Member

    Beautiful sight. Got to say, though, that the sound is pretty pathetic. Couldn't they have got her a better whistle: she sounds like she's got a cheap piece of plastic out of a cracker for a whistle.

    That's not a whistle. This is a whistle:

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    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Here are the timings for "The Deltic Borderer" this coming Saturday, with 55009 Alycidon.

    Realtimetrains list

    (Derby to) York to Edinburgh Waverley to Tweedbank:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U53270/2016/04/09/advanced

    Tweedbank to Edinburgh Waverley:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U53272/2016/04/09/advanced

    Waverley to Craigentinny:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U53273/2016/04/09/advanced

    Craigentinny to Waverley:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U53274/2016/04/09/advanced

    Edinburgh to York (to Derby):
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U53275/2016/04/09/advanced

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Thanks for the forewarning, Arellcat, I'll take the boy to see his first Deltic. He's nearly 20 months now, so it's about time!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    "I'll take the boy to see his first Deltic."

    And hear -

    "

    Does a Deltic sound different to any other diesel loco?

    A Deltic sounds very different to any other locomotive. At idle, the phasing gears inside the engine can be heard as can the scavenger blower and the exhaust. The noise varies depending on where and how far you are standing in relation to the locomotive. The engine note is like a low, rumble of thunder.

    "

    http://thedps.co.uk/reference/frequently-asked-questions/

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    A Deltic is also higher-revving and more balanced (given the large numbers of cylinders and how the cranks are aligned relative to eachother) than your common or garden diesel locomotive so has more of a hum or drone when at full throttle.

    The somewhat hypnotic diagram below is the cylinder firing order.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. kaputnik
    Moderator

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    Going to try and get it starting up at Waverley later too.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Good sound capture, K. I watched it come into Waverley:

    Then I high-tailed it over to Craiglockhart:

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. Tulyar
    Member

    Well I see that @arellcat & @kaputnik have had a busy Saturday and are now probably grinning and tucked up in bed after a tiring day chasing trains....

    The Navy reckoned on 1000 hours from the Napier engines, which were for UK rail unusual in that they were 2-stroke and 2 pistons per cylinder arranged in a delta of 3 cylinders butting on to another delta in a block of 18 pistons in 9 cylinders, a very short engine block, with a huge volume of power generating space.

    After 1000 hours the Navy just took out the engine, but that was just not viable or acceptable to BR who lifted the engine change period to 3000 hours and improved maintenance etc. DP1 and the production Class 55's had 2 engines but there was also DP2 (the Baby Deltic) with 1 engine, and a replica is being built with a Class 37 as the base structure.

    I find the animation here more appropriate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Napier_Deltic_Animation.gif

    Which also goes some way to highlight the glorious rattle from the timing gears whilst the backlash trails the power as the engine starts up, and the residual oil in the turbocharger gives that classic V plume exhaust, that also shoots up when the engine gas been idling.

    This is so different to the lumbering chug chug chug phut chug phut phut chug sequence with a Sulzer or Mirrlees, and the slightly faster and more urgent English Electric. The sheer weight of moving bits on a Sulzer would leave the loco rocking as the engine ran down.

    Glad you liked the LMS training film they were good with this material between the wars, and LNWR even produced some early material. WE had a 16mm print of Little & Often at the Haymarket Training School. Somewhere I also have both the steam and diesel enginemans handbooks produced by BR...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. Arellcat
    Moderator

    This evening at Edinburgh Waverley:

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    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. Arellcat
    Moderator

    According to Pathfinder Tours, "The Deltic Borderer II" is scheduled for June 18th (also a Saturday). It'll be almost exactly the same itinerary as TDB I.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. Tulyar
    Member

    Trailing 12 plus Class 67 - impressive.

    Coasted out so the spectacle of oil plumes not shooting out until Calton Tunnel

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    We didn't manage to get to Waverley (swings and playpark time was required), but did get in position for the return from Tweedbank at the Stanley Place / Spring Gardens underpass. Sadly I miscalculated and the Class 67 was in the lead with Alycidon idling very quietly and unspectacularly away at the back.

    I limited myself to a photo of the Mk. I Kitchen Car for my collection of things written in Rail Alphabet.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Quite a nice compilation video for:
    1) anyone still not sure of the manner in which a Napier Deltic sounds different from a Maybach, or a Sulzer, or an English Electric engine.
    2) anyone who likes trains.

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    Posted 8 years ago #

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