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I went down the WoL path to work today and back up it to avoid windy woo. Work has started on the worst bits around colinton, scraped the Gray sludge away, digging some drainage. If it was to stay dry tonight and tomorrow it would start to become passable but alas deluge is a coming.
No sign of any of the machinery that must have scraped the top layer away.
do we have any sense of if this is going to be more substantial/better lasting than previous efforts?
Well, unlike the well intentioned fix of the route 75 on the road where the not too terrible bits were fixed and the horrendous section, involving shutting the road was left, the WoL work is targeted at the worst bits, however on the other hand the worst bits got worse after they tried to fix them the last time, so the jury is out, not raining yet tho so may be dry through the weekend (cue raindrops keep falling on my head).
I came up this way yesterday. It's better than it was, but only because it was apallingly bad beforehand. Be interesting to see what it's like after some heavy rain. I'm not optomistic. Some parts of the path are still really bad, notably below the new flats on Lanark Road (at the Western end of Juniper Green). Also noticed some poor quality repairs before Currie Kirk.
In a month this will be on our doorstep.
It can't be cheap to do even your standard bad-quality doomed-to-failure work. It's seems crass to point out that there are many many miles of path in Edinburgh which aren't muddy swamps, but the contrast even to something like the Braid burn is eye-opening.
@Dave the way you word that is as if you're going out one night with your trailer and your shovel and going to dig it up and relay it somewhere more convenient to you!
Someone could do with dumping a few trailerloads of gravel onto the pipes that have scoured out donkey lane...
AKen, those are the bad bits for sure. The bits around colinton tunnel,were the really bad bits but they are scraping those bits down to the hardcore and putting in drainage channel.
@dave when I first moved out to Balerno the path was dry at leat in the summer and was a great way to get to work. After a few years it remained wet most of thie time, shame. Tricky to maintain the entire length of the river.
I was on it from leith to cannon mills this morning. All tar macadam. Several different views on here about laying tar or other permanent surface like towpath, from the bridge over Lanark road where the yacht used to live.
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Graham Budd (@TheBuddster)
17/04/2013 14:58
Been given some photos of Spylaw Park by one of our Rangers. Does anyone know if this is part of NCR 75? @CyclingEdin
http://pic.twitter.com/bXinrqfCki
"
That looks like the Water of Leith path?
The sustrans route NCR 75 runs along the WoL path from Balerno down to the footbridge over the lanark road then along the canal towpath
Haven't had to mention this to people I share the path with for many years. Occasionally people used to query the right of the cyclist pootle along the official sustans cycle route from leith to gourock
Just seen a tweet that the path work is going to involve more whin dust being put down. Isn't whin dust the stuff that gets so gloopy when it rains and is generally a bad idea?
"Isn't whin dust the stuff that gets so gloopy when it rains and is generally a bad idea?"
Yes and no.
As in - its good if it's used to bind some well graded and compacted stones.
When (not saying that will happen here) it's a cm or more layer by itself - NO!
Whin dust fine in thin layer as CHdot says. However, thin layer gets washed away. This might explain why they went for a thick layer that turned to grey clay like matter, sure did slow the boy racers down coming out of the tunnel.
Hi all. I spoke to one of the Senior Rangers today about this path.
Basically the last time this path was done it was treated with Whindust. Through monitoring it the Rangers noticed that there were some issues. So what they did was, after some research, tried installing Whindust on another section of path (I don't know where) but this time changing the way it was installed. This test has been monitored for a few months and is performing very well. So, now the Rangers are redoing the path in Spylaw using the same installation as in the test they carried out.
I'm sure chdot is right in that this time the layer of Whindust being installed in thinner and more compacted. I think that the actual Whindust being used is also not as fine as had previously been used which is also to assist the drainage of the path. If I understand correctly this is because the finer the dust the more it holds the water rather than allows it to drain away.
In addition to this a drainage channel is also being dug along the side of the path and the path itself is being installed with a slight gradient. Both of these elements should also help the water run off the path rather than pool.
So the path is being redone with the material it previous had on it but the way it is being used is quite different. Does that answer your questions? I'm sorry that my technical knowledge in these matters is not better.
@ the Buddster that makes sense
A similar thing happened when I bought very finely ground coffee from valvona and corolla for my espresso machine. The machine was not powerful enough to express water throught the very compacted coffee, the thinner the coffee grind the tighter the compactedness. So instead of coffee in a cup I had sludge similar to the colinton tunnel exit sludge in the compartment of the espresso machine's handle thingy.
Alas my technical knowledge not great. You can apparently hack these machines to get more power, or like me use more coarsely ground coffee. Similarly the rangers are using more coarsely ground dust
"So the path is being redone with the material it previous had on it but the way it is being used is quite different."
Drainage should make a big difference.
Crucial thing now is to make sure there's some maintenance - make sure the drainage works and scrape off any sludge - every autumn at least.
"Similarly the rangers are using more coarsely ground dust"
Coarse they are...
I spotted signs on the NEPN for the volunteer clean up of that path network. With dave moving out to the west and using the route I have high hopes. Michael the water bailiff (voluntary) walks the path every morning between currie and Balerno. He once gave me a walking staff he had whittled whilst walking as a present. Itis very nice. He might give dave one too for keeping the path clear?
So they're using coffee dust now ? Did I read that right ?
Yes, it's a colour coded homage to the nearby snuff mill.
Between 1985 and 1995 I was building paths like this, in Drybound (or waterbound given that one usually did the final roll with a wet roller) macadam, and having built paths like this in the UK and seen the work of others on forestry haul roads, and remote parts of Africa, China etc, it is clear that many people have forgotten the basic principles of building and using paths which do not rely on a tar binder being added to the stone.
In Central Scotland we have 2 key materials that can make superb drybound paths, namely crushed basalt, which pops up as dykes and plugs where we used to have to occasional volcano, and alluvial mixtures of crushed gravel and clay.
For a basalt-based path we would use a stone base of Type 1 (a graded mix of sizes designed to lock together, or scalpings - a cheaper ungraded mix of stone). This would be shaped with a drag box or by hand and compacted to a basic profile, and then about 20mm of whin (basalt) dust laid on the profile and then wet rolled. The material was generally specified as 6mm (stone size passing through the screens) to dust, typically the same material which is mixed with tarmac to provide what is often called 'slurry coat'. Stones (and dust) of this size offer no mechanical strength if laid as a thick layer, but will lock up the surface of a type 1 or drybound macadam base, and seal it, with the fine dust setting almost like a cement to form a rock-like skin when dry and also relatively robust when wet EXCEPT after a frost when the wet dust is loosened by the thawing of water in the surface layer AND if a vehicle which expels water through sipes cut in to the tyre tread, so that the water, under pressure is forced between the tyre and the dust surface, rapidly eroding away the finer material. All motor vehicles should be kept off the path as much as possible (rangers tak tent), and especially when the dust surface is weakened. You can see the effect of running motor vehicles on drybound paths through the neat lines of potholes created by the tyres displacing the fine stone that locked the bigger stones together. The surface also suffer if it sits under a drip-line - from the portal of a tunnel, or the water running off becomes focussed or travels at an excessive velocity.
Well constructed paths will have very gentle cross-falls or cambers (1:40 or less), and no raised edges (to trap water to run along the sides. Drains will sit below the surfaces and channel water away from the path, cutting off the water coming from uphill and taking it under the path where appropriate.
A similar detail applies to alluvial material, and we built the Loch Venachar path almost entirely with locally won material which had a useful amount of clay in it so that the stone locked up securely in the path structure.
Roads can be built from compacted sand, but the key detail is to manage the effects of water and the way that vehicles use them - a day of rally driving does more damage to a forestry road that a year of timber haulage.
Here's hoping that the repairs and resurfacing work OK - if there is a drip problem with the tunnel mouth, worth considering a couple of courses of stone blocks or bricks laid with a bond and matching the camber of the path. Pictures welcomed
@tulyar, the Buddster could do worse than pass this detailed info to the rangers
@charterhall, did you see the panorama holiday in North Korea prog? They are using whindust as coffee in Pyongyang now.
Interesting post Tulyar. I'm glad it should not be the same use of whin dust as caused problems before.
Actually drybound roads in many parts of the world are used by motor vehicles - and those not used to driving on them think that the plume of dust trailing behind the car as you speed along is impressive ... it is actually both damaging and dangerously stupid. The plume of dust is like water spray on a wet road, and the driver is travelling on a fluidised film of dust - in effect aquaplaning in the dry. As a result, the car loses all grip on the road and crashes are the result.
Drybound main roads are often very wide - for 2 key reasons. First this allows the regular regrading to take place in one 'lane' whilst the traffic drives around the grader, and second it allows the protocol of pulling over to the nearside, when you pass someone coming the other way, to minimise the risk of throwing up a stone through their windscreen and vice verse.
Had a look today.
Several different sections resurfaced - not just just below the tunnel.
Looks good, not too much dust (or too fine).
Less impressed by the drainage cuts.
We'll see...
Will try this morning
Drainage-wise - clearly not bold enough with the mattocks (or mini excavator). Basically think of a size and double it and you should be about right!
Cross-drains in 6" perforated land drain - vulnerable - use 12" pipe and make it easy to clean out from downstream side, and hard to block upstream.
Chris's pic the water in severe conditions has already been flowing over the path at damaging speed/volume right to the centre, and may soon find a weak/low spot to cut over and drain down to the WoL. No ditch seems to have been dug at all and a cross-drain about where photo taken might be a good idea. I suspect that the uphill side closes in just past photo point so the material washed down will build up and deflect the water seriously on to the path?
Drybound paths can be long lasting and economical to build & maintain - especially where movement would crack up tarmac - but water can destroy them if not properly managed.
Path was good to use today, fairly dry. Couple of patches of stone infill near currie kirk bit rough on skinnier tyres. The worst section at juniper green where the housing association flats are being built has been stripped down to a bumpy hardcore awaiting covering. The mud section east of the tunnel has been replaced with a red stone, then red gravel then whindust topping.
Go the rangers
Obviously the park rangers not the third division football side
Hi,
I've been off the last week so sorry I haven't been on.
So whats the verdict on the path so far then? Good or bad?
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