CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Princes Street consultation today (Friday 19th April)

(9 posts)

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  1. gkgk
    Member

    Hi All,

    Apologies if this appears elsewhere - I've just noticed this for-the-public drop-in consultation on the P street / George St plans is today and tomorrow!


    Friday 19 April, Assembly Rooms George Street, 12-6pm and Saturday 20 April, Assembly Rooms, George Street , 10 -2pm

    The full proposal can be seen https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/38622/item_7_20-building_a_vision_for_the_city_centre">here and responses can be emailed to citycentre.vision@edinburgh.gov.uk

    There’s also an on-line survey open until 9 May, but perhaps individual responses are recommended as the survey seems slanted towards the George Street option.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. Dave
    Member

    Sadly, today is only Thursday.

    However, that gives people more time to plan to attend!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I might be able to drop by Assembly rooms on Friday after work, although have already responded to the survey. Perhaps inspecting any plans will be as enlightening as the original Leith Walk consultation was as to how awful they are!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. gembo
    Member

    Did not ask for my contact details so not one of those consultations that wants to get back to you?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. gkgk
    Member

    Thursday today, it's true, a bonus day!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. Tulyar
    Member

    Interesting - over the past week, I learn that the track system used in Princes Street is not designed for or used elsewhere by buses with the intensity of the services on Princes Street - apparently over 250 buses/hr in one direction at peak times.

    To deliver a road surface which will stand up to buses accelerating, braking, and turning is a challenge - even for tarmac, and LB person dealing with the interface issues revealed that the only solution seems to be a very expensive system of bonded block paving.

    Apparently some people with experience of designing urban tram & bus systems recommended having the tram going one way on Princes Street with the buses going the other way, and a reverse position on George Street. If delivery vehicles were more appropriately sized the we MIGHT be able to use Rose Street and the original lanes network for the purpose that they were designed for (as the service roads for the properties on Princes Street and George Street).

    Such intensity of bus services, many with buses barely half filled suggests we need a rethink on routes- fewer buses actually passing through the core and looping - perhaps in along Glasgow Road and out on Lanark Road, or 'kissing' Princes Street from Leith and then off to Dalkeith, with a bus ticket valid to jump on a tram to Haymarket*, or a circulating city core bus route, free to hop on and off (avoiding the major cause of delay and requirement for buses to maintain a frequent service)

    *the potential interchange at York Place, which could allow this is not well sited and only a single track, limiting its potential.

    It very much appears that the realm of road surfaces, footways etc was being managed as a separate entity to the realm of the tram tracks, with a lack of a unified approach to comprehensive connection of levels and interfaces, so that the footway, although widened is not always a flat surface across the width.

    The street track in Edinburgh has been built to a very heavyweight standard, which of course leaves a very costly issue if it has to be dug out and sorted - again. Manchester actually had this when the rubber pads under the rails broke up and crumbled away leaving the rail able to 'pump' up and down, eroding the steel, and further breaking up the supporting material. I posted a video earlier, showing a tram track system from the same supplier being installed over a 2 day period on a tram route in another country, and the production rates for track laying/rebuilding demonstrated for the projects such as Airdrie-Bathgate, and Paisley Canal (track overhauled, lowered in places and line electrified in 44 days) show the speeds that can be delivered.

    So what has caused the failure to deliver as swiftly for light rail?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    The questions are APPALLINGLY badly designed. (I know spokes has said that, but I am shocked to see it in practice)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. gkgk
    Member

    Interesting detail there, Tulyar.

    a circulating city core bus route, free to hop on and off
    The exact same idea occurred to me a while back, when they had that wee steam train bus thing tootling back and forward on Princes Street.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. PS
    Member

    I had a quick look in at the drop in. It's all very high-level "vision" stuff at the moment, so plenty of time to influence it. A few things that struck me:
    The mock up of George Street had the central bit of the street (currently the parking) marked as bus stops rather than car parking.
    They seemed to be proposing that Fred St and Castle St remain as car-bearing roads, which seems a bit unnecessary, and not conducive to a full length of Geo St pedestrian experience.
    The two way cycle lane looked enormous on the George St mock up - really impressive.
    The traffic simulator they had running seemed to suggest one lane wide pinch points at each of the intersections on George St, but the mock up pictures didn't. Not sure what they have planned there.

    I didn't have time to speak to the project mgr (Trishia?) or the traffic planning guy (Alan?) but will give them my thoughts on the Internet questionnaire.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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