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Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route

(350 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by pringlis
  • Latest reply from Morningsider

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  1. Yodhrin
    Member

    Looks like they've come as close as they can to capitulating to the motor lobby while still being able to pretend they care about cycling. "Targeted removal of cycle lane defenders" indeed, might as well rip out the lot, it'll be full of parked cars and delivery fans from now on. I refer to the Comiston Road "solution".

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    If tories don’t get in then maybe they will target reinstation after local authority elections?

    Obviously if tories get in we are fecked.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. neddie
    Member

    Dave Sinclair (officer - head of roads?) at TEC today admits that the proposed "option 2" layout leaves an unsafe right-turn from Braid Rd into Braidburn Tce (heading South). Then he says, "vulnerable cyclists can just hop off to get through the junction"

    So people who use cycles as a mobility aid can just "hop off" can they?

    He really doesn't get it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. jonty
    Member

    TRO for the Newbattle Terrace changes:

    https://www.tellmescotland.gov.uk/notices/city-of-edinburgh/traffic/00000266541?utm_source=tms&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=notice_alert

    They have started doing "comments invited at this stage" TROs - sounds like a sort of mini-consultation? I don't know if this means that non-wrecking objections can be dealt with more easily?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. ejstubbs
    Member

    Braid Road is currently signed as being closed to bikes northbound - the "Except cyclists" sign next to the no entry signs at the south end of the restriction has been folded away. This seems to be due to some work being carried out on the wall along the west side, involving the (presumably temporary) closure of the footway at the point, with pedestrians diverted on to the northbound protected cycle lane for a few yards.

    Quite why that means that bikes aren't allowed northbound along any part of that stretch of road is unclear: I would have thought it was an obvious opportunity for one of the much despised "cyclists dismount" signs to be brought out of storage. Better than simply announcing "thou shalt not pass" when it's too late to do anything about it, surely?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    SA says today on Twitter B Rd will reopen both ways after August T&E…?

    From yesterday’s Full Council -

    QUESTION NO 30

    Question

    By Councillor Macinnes for answer by the Convener of the Transport and Environment Committee at a meeting of the Council on 30 June 2022

    (1) What is the Administration’s way forward on both the temporary and permanent schemes for Braid Road and what is your policy on Braid Road re-opening?

    Answer

    (1) The reopening of Braid Road, under the Travelling Safely Programme, has not occurred yet due to project delays.

    I am sure you share my concerns about this delay, it is one of many across the Transport and Environment remit. I hope that from August TEC will be able to provide transparent and open scrutiny of project delivery to help ensure schemes have adequate resources to be delivered on time and on budget.

    You will recall that you supported the proposal to reopen the one-way section of Braid Road to two-way traffic, introduce a modal filter and temporary pedestrian crossing. (Expected September 2022). I am committed to progressing this in an open and transparent way, and working with residents and community groups via the ETRO process.

    file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/85/05/51EB6C96-3FF6-4F56-AA61-5BA73E676AB8/Supplement%20Questions%20and%20Answers%2030062022%201000%20City%20of%20Edinburgh%20Council.pdf

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    SA says today on Twitter B Rd will reopen both ways after August T&E…?

    From yesterday’s Full Council -

    QUESTION NO 30

    Question

    By Councillor Macinnes for answer by the Convener of the Transport and Environment Committee at a meeting of the Council on 30 June 2022

    (1) What is the Administration’s way forward on both the temporary and permanent schemes for Braid Road and what is your policy on Braid Road re-opening?

    Answer

    (1) The reopening of Braid Road, under the Travelling Safely Programme, has not occurred yet due to project delays.

    I am sure you share my concerns about this delay, it is one of many across the Transport and Environment remit. I hope that from August TEC will be able to provide transparent and open scrutiny of project delivery to help ensure schemes have adequate resources to be delivered on time and on budget.

    You will recall that you supported the proposal to reopen the one-way section of Braid Road to two-way traffic, introduce a modal filter and temporary pedestrian crossing. (Expected September 2022). I am committed to progressing this in an open and transparent way, and working with residents and community groups via the ETRO process.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. pringlis
    Member

    They voted to do that a while ago but it was agreed that they'd delay until after a pedestrian crossing had been installed at the entrance to The Hermitage but I think they've rowed back on that too. They are installing a filter on the northbound section of Braid Road, and building out the kerb but it's still a step back. Attached picture should give an idea. It's flipped around but you can see the compass showing where north is.

    It's disappointing and will mean more traffic on the Quiet Route as cars will just cut down Hermitage Gardens and back onto Braid Road and continue through Morningside.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    More & more research on health benefits of walking & cycling incl for children. Cities should be built around this. Building safe car-free journeys to school & work hugely important. Please write to your councillors supporting routes such as the Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1561650528437903362

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. jonty
    Member

    Lights now in at Newbattle Terrace. Looks like the one way on Pitsligo Road got dropped

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. neddie
    Member

    Yeah, the one-way on Pitsligo got dropped after concerns from concerned residents*

    *Residents that all live in gated-communities behind 12 foot high stone walls. There is literally no housing frontage on Pitsligo whatsoever, so they all just see it as a racetrack to get out of their houses by car as fast as possible. No thought for making the neighbourhood nicer outside of their own walls. Side effect of gated-communities - we're alright, sod everyone else.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. neddie
    Member

    Of course the world hasn't ended the whole time that Newbattle Tce has been closed in its entirety due to the road works.

    A much simpler and cheaper solution would have been to implement a modal filter on Newbattle Tce...

    WHICH. IS. EXACTLY. WHAT. Blackford Safe Routes suggested about 4 years ago...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. pringlis
    Member

    18th November for Braid Road reopening. https://twitter.com/CllrScottArthur/status/1575162101051662338

    I'm extremely concerned about the impact it'll have on the Quiet Route.

    (PS is this thread meant to be a sticky now? It seems to have been set as sticky.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. pringlis
    Member

    Latest plans for Braidburn Terrace at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/udh9e7zlzcfolwk/AABHFuYXOPWDIH_rvbAIGno5a?dl=0

    I'm not really getting how the junction at Braid Road is meant to work, especially how people are meant to travel to/from Greenbank or Southbound on Comiston Road. There's a few places where it looks like you're dumped in the middle of nowhere and have to ride over the footpath (not marked as shared use path?) including crossing point with tactile. Anyone work it out?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  15. neddie
    Member

    More concerning is if the modal filter has gone from the North side of Braid Rd ???

    Posted 11 months ago #
  16. pringlis
    Member

    I think that's just because the filter is part of the Greenbank to Meadows ETRO so can't be shown in this scheme as it's separate. My understanding is that they'll build this, then stick the planters back where they are, and then if the ETRO fails at any point in the future they just remove them and this "permanent scheme" remains.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  17. Morningsider
    Member

    @pringlis - I think this particular design is beyond saving. The carriageway of Braidburn Terrace is 7.5m wide, but the design gives over 4m of this width to parking along most of its length. What should have been a straightforward cycle contraflow lane (preferably inside the parking) is therefore not possible.

    The weird Toucan crossing by the entrance to Braidburn Valley Park is to allow for a phase to be removed from the traffic light sequence - that allowing traffic to exit Braidburn Terrace. This will give traffic more time to go up/down Comiston Road - with cyclists exiting Braidburn Terrace on the existing pedestrian green man.

    The Braid Road junction is simply a mess. It should be massively simplified as a narrow, 4-way priority junction. Vehicles cannot access the northern Braid Road leg, or travel west along Braidburn Terrace - all this needs is planters or bollards to prevent access.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  18. Arellcat
    Moderator

    It's not just simply a mess, it's 'lawful lawlessness' right now. It's utterly confusing and rather hazardous for anyone turning right from Braid Road into Braidburn Terrace. Wait at the planters until the light goes green...but is it green for me or for the drivers to my left, or the drivers turning right out of Braid Road into Hermitage Drive?

    I've used the junction three times recently, and yesterday I actually deviated from my usual straight-up-Comiston-Road route to sit and watch the dynamics for a couple of minutes.

    It seemed that right turning cyclists only turned right when the drivers voluntarily gave way. The rest of the time it was a case of sit and wait. Making the manoeuvre in the torpedo, with its massive turning circle, was pretty tricky.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  19. Dave
    Member

    Just by complete chance I was passing through the links at the end of the school day today, and when I realised I cut up to the end of the quiet route to check out the filter outside Gillespie's.

    It was like some utopia of kids running around, parents chatting in the middle of the street, bikes everywhere, people going hither and thither. I stopped for a second to ponder just how CRAZY it is that the council are kicking everything into the long grass and/or catering to NIMBYs - it's obvious how extremely popular this would be on a wider scale.

    What a garbage outcome from what seemed like pretty positive local elections - with the Tory vote cratering, who could have imagined we'd be looking at a council term which ends up going backwards?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  20. Arellcat
    Moderator

    And you can understand why people get burned out fighting all this stuff for the greater good All The Time. I don't know where DdF gets his energy from but he could bottle it and make a fortune.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  21. neddie
    Member

    Blackford Safe Routes' take

    Let's show councillors just how much kids' safety means to this community! Complete the council survey. Full details and why this matters at

    https://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/braid-estate-and-whitehouse-loan/

    https://twitter.com/blackfordsafer1/status/1700459422940549135?s=20

    Posted 5 months ago #
  22. neddie
    Member

    The volume of traffic on the supposed "Quiet" Route

    https://x.com/CllrScottArthur/status/1701295163744584063?s=20

    First minute of the video...

    Posted 5 months ago #
  23. neddie
    Member

    Good grief! There's so much to unpack in that video. Close passes, speeding, huge volumes of traffic, vans trying to push past each other.

    Even Cllr Arthur looks nervous and Daniel Johnson says it himself, "it's been pretty busy just while we've been talking here - need to keep an eye on that!"

    Posted 5 months ago #
  24. pringlis
    Member

    I spent an hour at the consultation event at Morningside Library today. Didn't intend to stay that long but it was full of people spouting nonsense so I thought I had to stay and provide some balance! It's on until 7pm tonight and there's another one next week if anyone wants to go along - https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/greenbank-to-meadows/

    Reading between the lines I'm pretty sure they'll go with Option 2 (partial removal of filters and introducing segregated cycling). I don't think Option 3 (complete removal) is on the cards, but I think the only way they'd go with Option 1 is if it's a clear "winner" in the de-factor referendum. Please everyone do consider filling in the consultation, and getting your partners/kids to fill it in too. They confirmed today that you can fill in multiple per household and that kids can fill it in too, there are paper copies available at https://drscottarthur.files.wordpress.com/2023/09/travelling-safely-greenbank-to-meadows-engagement-questionnaire-print-copy.pdf which can be handed in at the library and may be easier for children to fill out.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  25. Stickman
    Member

    Green motion for Thursday’s Transport Committee:

    Motion by Councillor Bandel - Greenbank-Meadows Quiet Route Consultation

    “Committee:

    1. Notes the contested decision of the Transport & Environment committee in June 2023 to separately readvertise the ETRO for the Greenbank-Meadows Quiet Route scheme whilst agreeing that the aims of the scheme should not be “diluted.”

    2. Considers that the aim of the Quiet Route is about more than just facilitating safe cycling routes for residents and instead is about reducing traffic levels and making residential areas safer and quieter, in line with the Council target of reducing car km usage by 30% by 2030.

    3. Therefore, notes with concern that multiple options put forward for consideration as part of the readvertised ETRO include the removal of modal filters which will reintroduce motor traffic into residential areas, including an option to wholly remove all filters in the southern section of the route, and considers that these proposals do “dilute” the scheme.

    4. Recognises that whilst a workshop with ward Councillors was held to discuss options, no consensus was reached about what options were appropriate to bring forward as part of the consultation, and notes with concern that some options – for example, to reopen sections of Whitehouse Loan to motor vehicles – were discussed when some Councillors were not present owing to the workshop significantly overrunning.

    5. Notes that whilst it is important and useful to bring in local knowledge via engagement with ward members, private officer-member workshops are neither democratic nor a decision-making body in the Council.

    6. Therefore, reaffirms that Transport & Environment committee is the decision-making body for this matter and that the final option for the Quiet Route will be agreed at committee, following consideration of comments put forward by residents through the consultation process.

    7. Nevertheless, despite the concerns raised above, encourages residents to participate in the consultation so that their views are heard.”

    Posted 5 months ago #
  26. neddie
    Member

    There’s also a paper (pdf) copy of the consultation downloadable from Blackford Safe Routes’ site, if you don’t want to bump up traffic on Cllr Arthur’s blog

    https://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/braid-estate-and-whitehouse-loan/

    Posted 5 months ago #
  27. neddie
    Member

    Mrs neddie and I went to the consultation event as a staggered outing. We both had similar experiences to pringlis - a lot of wealthy looking retired people huddled into a circle. Not a single other person that looked like they might have young kids to be seen.

    There was a lot of “oooh, how will I be able to drive this way, oooh but what if I want to go here, oooh but how will I get out of my house. Me me me me me”

    When I suggested that all their proposals to relocate the closures to suit their own particular use-cases was nimbyism, the circle quickly dispersed.

    One guy thought it was all part of a plan to force him to use the bus (the humanity!) and he’d be locked in his house.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  28. gembo
    Member

    It seems the old folks are more motivated to keep destroying the planet than the young folks are to take them on?

    It can be wearing to state the obvious again and again

    Young people don’t vote enough either

    Old gammons Rule.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  29. neddie
    Member

    The council officer suggested they would use "Holyrood Rd" style, glued-on kerb segregation. The cost of that he estimated at £200k to £250k. I put it to him that the final cost would be much higher, because eventually they would have to come back and make the glued-on kerbs permanent.

    So instead of spending £10k on an additional modal filter, they want to spend £250,000 to enable more rat-running down Braid Ave...

    ... in one of the most affluent areas in the whole of Edinburgh

    If Labour end up voting for the segregated cycle lanes on Braid Ave, they'll go down in history for spending huge money on (billionaires?) millionaires, while depriving areas in desperate need of investment - is that really Labour principles?

    I reckon if they do that, Labour are going to get absolutely roasted from a social justice point of view

    Posted 5 months ago #
  30. Stickman
    Member

    @neddie - also factor in the legal costs of having to defend all the objections and judicial reviews raised by the local QCs.

    Posted 5 months ago #

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