...and I commit to taking any action, with the exception of those found to work or to annoy flabby, puce faced, middle aged Audi drivers.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route
(449 posts)-
Posted 2 months ago #
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We need to face reality – we are not doing enough on road safety.
- Kevin LangYes, just hours after you put in an emergency motion to "ensure we act just as soon as the police report is received and conclusions are known", after a child died, Kevin Lang voted to remove a scheme that keeps school children safe.
Sickening
Posted 2 months ago # -
“
Update March 2024
The good, the bad, the ugly…
“
https://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/braid-estate-and-whitehouse-loan/
Posted 2 months ago # -
“
#BraidEstate
Excellent summary of Transport Cttee #EdinWebcast debate & bad decision
https://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/braid-estate-and-whitehouse-loan/
NB, as we understand it, filter removal is just next stage in ongoing legal ETRO process.
Cllrs can reinstate filters at end of process, after monitoring the new setup“
Posted 2 months ago # -
I am a great fan of Spokes. I also understand they want to keep friendly relations with officials and councillors.
However, while legally correct, that post is nonsense. After rejecting impassioned, well argued and fact based deputations at last week's meeting, does anyone seriously think that Labour, Lib Dem and Tory councillors are going to u-turn on this issue? They have taken the political hit for this decision - why would they take another hit from the 'anti' side? It's not like it would bring any of us back onside.
The filters are gone and are not coming back.
Posted 2 months ago # -
“The filters are gone and are not coming back.“
Presumably “gone” in the sense that there has been a vote to remove them?
Officials still have to draw up, revised, detailed proposals and a list of which currently planned AT projects would be postponed/cancelled.
In parallel (other?) officials have to draw up ‘emergency’ proposals for Whitehouse Road (not Loan as the Police managed to Tweet!).
Of course it may be that Labour maintains its Party discipline in defence of its precious minority administration. This because of subservience to Anas Sarwar’s decree of ‘no deals with the SNP.
The LibDems may continue to restrain some of its Cllrs from saying what they believe.
It’s not merely that ‘we’ want things to different.
“After rejecting impassioned, well argued and fact based deputations at last week's meeting”
These still stand and likely to be strengthened with the new reports PLUS the long awaited report on School Travel.
ALL expected at the next TEC.
Don’t despair, organise!
Posted 2 months ago # -
There's simply no way politically they can reopen the road, splash half a million on upmarket segregation then re-filter the estate. Anyone hoping for that is just setting themselves up for crushing disappointment.
I think perhaps a more productive angle would be to try and build momentum to save the northern end of the route?
Posted 2 months ago # -
It'll be harder for them to attack the northern end if they're busy dealing with the fall out from the southern. Let's keep the battle frontline to the south
Posted 2 months ago # -
Anyone hoping for that is just setting themselves up for crushing disappointment.
The residents are regrouping and setting themselves up for the fight. This isn’t going to go down quietly. Councillors need to learn they can’t just rip out schemes without serious backlash. It ain’t over till it’s over.
Cycle campaigners would do well to back the residents. Otherwise it’ll be: “First they came for the Braid estate, but I was not one of them, then they came for…”
Posted 2 months ago # -
Is CEC going for some sort of Vision Zero approach? Or Vision Collateral Damage Is OK?
I am too old not to be cynical.
I think there is a golden opportunity for some sort of "Vision Zero? Zero Vision!" sloganeering.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I spent half an hour filming around Braid av and it's really mind blowing to think that they have voted to reopen the rat runs. Hardly any cyclists relatively speaking, maybe one a minute, but loads of people walking hither and thither in the peace and quiet.
Just around the corner I filmed the new junction with the double zebra. So unpleasant! There was actually a fair amount of considerate driving but I can't think of a junction to beat it in the "you're convinced there will be a crash any minute" competition
Posted 2 months ago # -
There's a fair amount of inconsiderate driving around that area IME. Just yesterday I was proceeding along Hermitage Drive at a stately, GPS-confirmed 20mph when the wee silver hatchback behind me pulled out and overtook and pulled away going at least 30mph. Predictably enough, I pulled up directly behind it as we waited for peds to cross at the double zebra. Totally pointless MGIF/speed limits don't apply to me behaviour.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I suspect things are going to get much worse than people expect. The mini-roundabout at Hermitage Drive/Braid Road acted as something of a brake on vehicle speeds along Braid Road. Its removal hasn't had any noticeable impact yet, as the Braid Road filter requires traffic to slow and turn. Once the filter is removed cars have a new, unrestricted run along Braid Road.
That's going to look pretty attractive to drivers facing tailbacks and multiple traffic lights on Comiston Road.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Someone should do a bit of a project to capture great video of the way it is now, nice days with schools walking about etc, so that it's not possible for future filtering to be so lightly dismissed once memory fades
Posted 2 months ago # -
Worth a whole YouTube channel…
School(s) project even.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Truth, half-truth or?
“
The “Quiet Route” between Greenbank and Cluny Gardens is a legacy Spaces for People project which is more controversial than it should be due to problematic consultations in the past, and the flawed way in which the opposition parties reopened Braid Road. At that point I requested that the reopening ‘should include consideration of a more clearly defined cycle route between Greenbank Crossroads and the Meadows, and how this interfaces with Comiston Road’, but this was blocked by the Edinburgh Greens.
“
Posted 1 month ago # -
Designs for the implementation of Option 3 using
temporary materials are progressing well. It is anticipated
that implementation of the scheme, including speed
reducing measures where appropriate, will proceed during
autumn 2024 following completion of the designs, a Road
Safety Audit, and a construction tender process.Posted 4 weeks ago # -
“
#Edinwebcast #Greenbank/#Meadows
@CllrScottArthur amend't to make it 100% clear that the previously-agreed option 3 is experimental, hence use cheap materials
The Order will be clear that Options 1 or 2 could be restored depending on the trial resultsAgreed (with minor change)
“
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
...what? So despite restoking bitter divisions by continually revisiting the project, then they decide to replace the temporary infra which "people just don't like how it looks" with the "community's choice" of a high quality segregated lane.. and now it's already getting downgraded to temporary infra and talk of the other options swirls
Sigh
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Disingenuous nonsense. Any layout would have been 'experimental', as it is being given legal effect through an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order (ETRO). You could equally claim that keeping the existing Spaces for People layout would have been 'experimental' and subject to possible change.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
On a Lothian Bus heading south on Morningside Road earlier. Cars parked either side of the road next to Chalmers Church, including along the length of the northbound cycle lane. The
available carriageway was to narrow for the bus to pass, until a northbound driver stopped further down the hill to create. Had to waited two or three minutes.That wouldn't have happened if the segregated cycle lane was still in place.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Weighing in post-TEC:
Labour's amendment really welcome, in terms of formalising lots of back-pedalling room.
In full:
Welcomes the Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Connection - Delivery of Option 3 Updated
Noting that this is a trial, agrees that it is acceptable that we look at robust but inexpensive ways to test the approach.
Notes that there continues to be a range of views in the local community about how the scheme should proceed, and that the ETRO process will provide a platform to amend the scheme in response to feedback from residents.
Agrees that whilst Option 3 (as amended) will be deployed, that the Council Officers should include in the ETRO powers to install all/part of Options 1 or 2 in response to feedback from residents.
Notes the Committee enhanced Option 3, and agrees that the modal filters should not be removed until these improvements are deployed:
1. That Braid Avenue and Braid Road (north of Hermitage Drive) are not primary traffic routes, and this should be reflected in their layout and design.
2. Speed reduction measures should be installed on Hermitage Drive, Midmar Drive, Braid Road (southern extent) and Braid Ave were (sic) there are known speeding issues.
3. Consideration should be given to providing a parking space for Blue Badge holders as close as possible to the Hermitage of Braid entrance.
4. Any necessary updates to local School Travel Plans are made/installed.
The key bit here seems to be that including the option to revert in the ETRO means that at any point in the 'trial' of segregated lanes, TEC can move to revert back to the other options from recent consultation without any further legal wrangling. Not only that, but any of the three options can also be made permanent at the end of the ETRO (up to 18 months max) without further consultation or full TRO.
I'm in a local campaign email thread with folk from Blackford Safe Routes, Safer Cycling South Ed, Local residents including those behind the recent petition, Spokes and other bloody cyclists. Inspired by @Dave's suggestion here a while back and some before/after infra videos I've seen I'm also currently recording a bunch of 'before' footage (both ride-through footage in both directions at peak times, and stationary peak time videos in three or four locations) in preparation for doing the same once all the rat-running is back.
List below of the location scouting videos - some I had in my head as good spots but turned out unsuitable when tested.
Proposed - Braidburn Ter junction - https://youtu.be/5_5F428nleE
Rejected - Down Braid Ave, Top - https://youtu.be/Qe9SecOmJTQ
Hadn’t accounted for the brow of the hill!Rejected - Down Braid Ave Nr Top, right side - https://youtu.be/J6Ym0T4Mp54
Not enough of a sense of the full road from hereProposed - Down Braid Ave Nr Top, left side - https://youtu.be/Y_NQsFYB_7w
Rejected - Up Braid Ave from after Cluny Gdns - https://youtu.be/vG1tyYELuQk
Too much of the junction rather than Braid Ave itselfProposed - Up Braid Ave from Lights - https://youtu.be/-gg0k8RLbgU
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
...on videos, would very much welcome feedback on:
- Whether it matters that before/after ends up with comparisons being e.g. a video taken in the light in May and a video taken in the dark in November.
- If so, how to avoid - go for school pick-up times rather than peak commute between 5-6pm?
- Similarly, when to capture 'before' - before summer? May? Planning on an hour each location all shot in the same week, at the same time of day.
Had been tempted to do at least one of the locations - at the bottom of Braid Ave - at school pick up time to get the Watsons traffic when that rat running resumes.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
@bakky: once all the rat-running is back.
My experience of Midmar Drive, Hermitage Drive and Braid Road southbound from the Hermitage Drive/Braidburn Terrace junction is that peak hours rat-running along that corridor is very much back already. It might get worse still when Option 3 is implemented but the through traffic is pretty heavy already IME. And all too prone to speeding into the bargain. (I was overtaken heading westbound on Hermitage Drive the other week by a mini being driven at significantly more than 20mph - I know because I was managing 20mph myself at that point. Not all that surprisingly, I caught up with them again when someone in front of them gave way to some pedestrians on the crossing at the Braid Road junction.)
I wouldn't be surprised if installation of speed reducing measures on that corridor doesn't just lead to rat-runners permeating along other streets in the 'Braid Estate'.
Regarding the disabled parking space: I hope to god they don't put it on Braid Road. The unprotected bit of cycle lane before you get to the entrance to the Hermitage feels pretty intimidating already at peak times without having to pull out to pass a parked vehicle as well. AIUI at least one person* already has permission to park their van on the drive leading to the Hermitage, near the cafe. Maybe they could put an official disabled parking space on that bit of the drive as well?
*I had a bit of a run-in with that person back when Braidburn Terrace was two-way for motor vehicles and it used to get parked up on both sides. I had just pulled in to the centre of the road to pass between the two rows of parked vehicles when the van appeared coming in the other direction and pulled out directly in front of me. Not feeling inclined to back up simply because they had failed to spot me coming the other way, I stood my ground. The driver of the van then started waving his disabled parking badge at me, as if he thought that gave him some kind of priority which meant he didn't have to take other road users into account. Rather an odd character I thought.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
4. Any necessary updates to local School Travel Plans are made/installed.
I'm still trying to find out, on behalf of SMPS PC, what exactly this means! Our school travel plan frankly isn't worth the paper it's written on (items from previous plans are are still outstanding years later) and noone's reached out to the school or the PC to talk about any "necessary updates" in view of the proposed changes. I've contacted council officers and councillors with no answer, so Cllr Parker has now escalated to Sr Director of Place for us.
We're still short 3 of the 4 crossing guards which are listed in the current school travel plan, and I'm not sure what mitigations we'd be able to get added with the travel plan. There aren't really any I can think of short of "don't do this, keep the filters"!
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
“There aren't really any I can think of short of "don't do this, keep the filters"! “
Can you get PC to actually say that in some sort of formal way?
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Complicated question! We (Transport Committee) tried in the past to get a formal resolution passed by full PC but there were enough dissenters who want the Quiet Route removed that we had to pull the vote as it wasn't clear it'd pass, and we didn't want to have to formally take the opposite position. Transport Committee has been clear with councillors on our position about not wanting it removed, but while we've had support for Greens the response from local Labour/LibDem/Conservative councillors has been disappointing. I believe the Head Teacher has written in support of the Quiet Route too. There's a PC meeting tonight which I can't make, but I'm sure it'll come up in discussion,
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Thanks for response
Understand your dilemmas!
Posted 2 weeks ago #
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