010203 - A 90kg bike/ rider travelling at 26 mph has a kinetic energy of over 6,400 Joules - easily fatal.
...and a car (1100kg) travelling at 7.7 mph is over 6,500 joules. Hmmm.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"20mph limit to go ahead across Edinburgh"
(230 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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@WC. (streets around me already 20mph, but quite a few on the commute would benefit too - mind you, one of the streets near me has three schools long its length, and STILL no-one sticks to 20).
Surely there must be streets in your area that are not yet 20mph limit? Also you could press for better enforcement of the limits...
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Surely there must be streets in your area that are not yet 20mph limit? Also you could press for better enforcement of the limits..."
The A1....
Posted 10 years ago # -
Clearly that is going to be a lost cause. How about Duddingston Road? Is that 20mph? Doesn't look it. Should it be? Looks pretty residential...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yep, that's the road with the three schools along it. 20mph for the full length. As are Mountcastle Drives North and South.
Duddingston Road West up to Duddingston Village; Brighton Place down to Porty; and Portobello Road itself are the nearest (other than the A1) that are 30mph (and Brighton Place is kind of speed limited as the cobbled surface is so abysmal).
Duddingston Road West is the main one worth campaigning about, given there's the High School at the top and people really do fly down there.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@WC, the signage on Duddingston Road probably needs improving as it is not at all obvious it is 20mph limit there. Enforcement may be needed as it's a long straight 'go fast' road...
Posted 10 years ago # -
That energy calculation is wrong anyway. KE=1/2mvv. 26m/h is 11.6m/s, mass is 90kg, therefore KE is 6080J, not 'over 6400'.
Or enough energy to heat a litre of water by 1.45 degrees Celcius, if you want to feel pathetic.
Posted 10 years ago # -
This is the signage as you enter from Duddingston Road West - must check the other entry points. Used to be every side street had its own 20pmph signs, but when the 'main roads' (i.e. Dudd Road and the Mountcastles) were made 20mph they took the individual street signs down (and didn't put up reminder signs).
There are speed bumps, but they do little to slow traffic down. In all the years I've ridden and driven Duddingston Road I have not once seen anyone enforcing the limit (though at one of the schools the police occasionally turn up to direct traffic about as so many people drop off their kids - can't have a large catchment area either).
Posted 10 years ago # -
Aha, had forgotten that Northfield Broadway, and Duddingston Park are both still 30mph. The former has a school, and 20mph during drop off and pick up, so wouldn't be too much of a leap to make it 20 all the time.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think most people assume the speed limit is for school times only. I know a few people who have said so.
Worst is Mountcastle Drive North. Coming downhill on it, as I will be in about 60 minutes, it's easy to get over 20 mph on the bike. Cars still try desperately to overtake - even more exciting with the speed bumps, pinch points and parked cars.
Less 'traffic calming', more 'obstacle course' - or perhaps 'slalom'
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Coxy, yeah last time I cycled that way I noticed drivers were going quite fast. Presumably they're all members of IAM who believe in "driving to the conditions" rather than obeying the law?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"PLEASE email Jim Orr and Leslie Hinds to say thanks - and generally encourage them."
Done.
Posted 10 years ago # -
transport convener Councillor Lesley Hinds promised there would be clear proposals about where the zones should be. She said: “We will come back with maps that will identify exactly where the 20, 30 and 40mph zones would be and then we will have a consultation process.”
Hmm. I suspect there will be several battles to be fought:
- first to get streets included in the proposed 20mph zones (that battle is now)
- second to keep streets in the proposed 20mph zones in the face of opposition from irate drivers, Lothian Buses, etc. (during the consultation)
- third to get the 20mph zones enforced (after implementation)Posted 10 years ago # -
[sarcasm]Oh, I hope they make Queen's Drive a 20mph road - it would be so nice not to get overtaken when cruising through Holyrood Park at 20.[/sarcasm]
Posted 10 years ago # -
We need to petition Historic Scotland I think to get the limit changed in Holyrood Park.
Still, may not be any harm in petitioning the Council on the issue.....I no longer run my own business but if anyone here does, it would appear it's a lot easier to get 'business' petitions heard by the committee.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've been dealing with some heavy maths, physics and statistics all day so I'd like to note something very tangentially related:
Relative to the International Space Station, me riding my bike has a kinetic energy of approximately 2640402000 Joules.
Now that's an interesting thought isn't it?
Posted 10 years ago # -
As mentioned earlier George Rosie has some interesting insights into Edinburgh's past road building plans - which were mostly defeated, but some 'roads/traffic for prosperity' ideas persist.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KWIsYhmpnp4C&pg=PA236&lpg=PA237&ots=FH6SG1wqto&output=html_text
Posted 10 years ago # -
We need to petition Historic Scotland I think to get the limit changed in Holyrood Park.
My point was more about the bit (along the flat by the lower loch) that is 20mph already. There were a couple of drivers self-policing the speed limit last night by actually observing it, but on my four laps of the Seat I was passed by 8 or 9 cars going c30mph when I was doing 19...
Posted 10 years ago # -
@PS, happens all the time. Petition HS to get install speed cameras? Get plod to patrol more?
The park used to have its own police service until relatively recently. Now they just have rangers.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It strikes me that once the 20mph zones are in place across the city, abuse of Holyrood Park by rat runners will get worse.
We could always revive WC's petition but address it to the Scottish Government? Perhaps with different wording to take account of the new 20mph zones planned?
At a minimum, lobbying CEC to include the park in its 20mph plans. After all, plenty of pedestrians and cyclists there.
Posted 10 years ago # -
We need to petition Historic Scotland I think to get the limit changed in Holyrood Park.
My point was more about the bit (along the flat by the lower loch) that is 20mph already. There were a couple of drivers self-policing the speed limit last night by actually observing it, but on my four laps of the Seat I was passed by 8 or 9 cars going c30mph when I was doing 19...
I live close by, so I go past that section (around St Margarets) quite often.
And I share your experience: 18-19mph and most cars are whizzing by me.
PS 4 laps? Chapeau!
Posted 10 years ago # -
If 'we' really want 20mph on all residential and shopping streets, not just backstreets like in the south edinburgh pilot, then I recommend as many of 'us' run for local community council as possible.
I was talking with someone today who just laughed at the idea that Gilmore Place might become 20mph.
It's not going to be easy.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago #
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Usual caveats apply: DON'T REAAD THE COMMENTS
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Bus chiefs are giving their support to the roll-out but have voiced concerns that speed bumps should be avoided wherever possible.
"GREAT!
"
“The nature of the busier roads on which a 20mph limit is likely to be taken forward means impacts on bus journey times are expected to be very limited indeed.
"
I think 'we' have been saying that for a while...
Well done LB.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Good news.
I'd interesting in seeing a map of what roads are to be 40, 30 and 20. If the criteria for 20mph are genuinely "all residential streets, main shopping areas, city centre streets, and roads with high levels of pedestrian and cyclist activity" then I can think of very few roads within a couple of miles of the city centre that would not qualify.
Regent Road?
Would Ferry Road fall outwith the definition, or does the fact that it is lined with houses make it "residential"?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Would Ferry Road fall outwith the definition, or does the fact that it is lined with houses make it "residential"?"
I think parts used to be 40mph, but not now(?)
The Leith end will 'definitely' be 20mph. Most of the rest 'ought to be, so it would be simpler if all of it becomes 20mph.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@PS
I'd interesting in seeing a map of what roads are to be 40, 30 and 20.A map for consultation is expected to go to Transport Cttee in May...
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2014/01/edinburgh-local-transport-strategy-2014-19/
Think this will only cover the 20mph, that being specified as a priority.If the criteria for 20mph are genuinely "all residential streets, main shopping areas, city centre streets, and roads with high levels of pedestrian and cyclist activity" then I can think of very few roads within a couple of miles of the city centre that would not qualify.
Spokes predicts Leith Walk will be included. See above article.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Spokes predicts Leith Walk will be included"
Yes - and presumably Clerk Street, Morningside Road, all of the QBC etc.
It will be interesting to see if this is done in stages. If so how the priorities are worked out.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Has there been any research on fuel consumption /pollution regarding driving around at 20mph in 3rd gear VS 30mph in 4th?
I realise it's rather problematic to assume, and in many cases imposible that these speeds/ration apply in normall traffic conditions, but I'm sure this will be the argument from many naysayers.
Posted 10 years ago #
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