Picardygate?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
"extensive facilities for cyclists" (and expensive too!) - St. James 'Quarter'
(126 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Motion carried. Opposition amendments fall. Cll Adam McVey quoted George Osborne during the debate???!!!
Ker-ching!!! to the developers, a £61 million filip to their project.
OTOH, some opportunities for "us":
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Crow River @Crowrivernet 43m
@sootyEH8 @CllrChasBooth @EdinReporter 1800 parking spaces: 3 x current bays. Yet tram, train, bus next door! How many extra car journeys?Caroline Brown @DrCarolineBrown 24m
@CllrChasBooth @Crowrivernet great! all on-road parking in george st, queen st and thereabouts can be turned into #Space4Cycling----
Posted 9 years ago # -
Oh no, We don't need another CaltongateGate. :-(
Posted 9 years ago # -
Can we change this thread's title to "VERY EXPENSIVE facilities for cyclists"?
Posted 9 years ago # -
As I understand it, to "facilitate" this development the Council will:
1. Borrow £61.4m
2. Repay a total of £109.71m over 23 years
3. The developers will contribute £350,000 per year to this
4. The Scottish Government will pay the remainder if:a) The rateable value of the St James Centre rises by a pre-determined amount
b) The rateable value of a wider area rises be a pre-determined amount
c) Employment and training targets are metIf the targets aren't met then the Government's contribution falls and the Council meets the shortfall. The Government's contribution is capped at £97m - anything more has to be met by the Council. The Council is responsible for any interest payable above 5.5%.
This cash will be used to fund:
"...improvements to the physical environment at James Craig Walk, designed to increase the accessibility, permeability and the user experience of the areas;
new public realm at Picardy Place, together with the provision of a multi-modal transport interchange at the junction of Leith Walk, Leith Street & York Place. A
new energy centre designed to provide power, heat and cooling to the development and, potentially, the wider area will also be constructed."Obviously worth pushing to see how cycling/walking will be to the fore in these works - given the Council is paying for them (although the developer will deliver them).
Posted 9 years ago # -
SO
In what version of 'political reality', 'sustainable growth' etc. is this 'value for money'???
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
Carlton Reid (@carltonreid)
01/05/2014 14:56
Matson, TfL: "When we ask companies like Google what they want in London, they say more walking & cycling facilities." #CycleCityExpo"
Google in Edinburgh is in (former) GPO building - opp St. James Centre..
Posted 9 years ago # -
Caroline Brown @DrCarolineBrown 24m
@CllrChasBooth @Crowrivernet great! all on-road parking in george st, queen st and thereabouts can be turned into #Space4CyclingMy thoughts exactly. Absolutely no excuse now for not pedestrianising (and cycl-ising) George Street, given all these parking spaces within easy walking distance (or cycling distance - perfect opportunity for an Edinburgh cyclehire scheme).
The French approach would be to build a massive underground car park under Picardy Place and pedestrianise the surface into a high-quality public space (Playhouse, cathedral, Calton Hill), probably with a transport interchange on the surface. Gateway to the city centre and all that.
Cooncil really needs to take this opportunity to transform Picardy, Leith Street and access to Waverley Station via Calton Road into something welcoming, and suddenly the bikehub at that end of Waverley would start to make sense.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Given this has now been approved by Lab/SNP coalition despite opposition, then "we" need to press for changes that will benefit "our" mode of transport.
1. Cycling to be designed into the new "multi-modal" transport interchange, ie. segregated cycle lanes on Picardy Place, York Place, Leith Street. Bicycle parking easily accessible on street also.
2. Create segregated (or shared use) cycle links between George Street, North Bridge, York Place and Picardy Place running through the development, eg. on James Craig Walk, Multrees Walk, Wee King Street, etc.
3. Remove all on-street parking within a 500m radius of St James/Omni Centre car parks. Re-locate loading bays to the various lanes between George Street. Princes Street, and Queen Street. Replace on-street parking/loading bays with segregated and mandatory cycle lanes on St Andrew Square, York Place, Queen Street, George Street, Waterloo Place, Broughton Street. Remove one lane of traffic northbound on Leith Street and replace with bus lane.
4. Get rid of Picardy Place roundabout and replace with signalised junction with proper facilties for pedestrians to cross and segregated cycle lanes.
5. Fix the access to Calton Road so that cyclists can turn right onto Leith Street. Probably needs nearby signalised junction at Greenside Place to be extended south to cover Calton Road. Safer for pedestrians and cyclists.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Looking at the cycle nation report chdot posted here: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12722#post-151380
- "The number of cycle parking
spaces should at least match the
number of car parking spaces
throughout a development.
- For office and industrial sites, it
is expected that at last half of
the workers should be able to
park their bicycle at work.- For retail, it is expected that at least
half of the staff and visitors should
be able to park their bicycle."So the recommendation from that is that there should be far more than 1800 bike spaces. Unless they are expecting less than 1000 shoppers (based on 2500 jobs being created). Even going for a minimum 1800 spaces then based on 4 bikes per square metre that's only about 15% of a rugby pitch.
1800 cars however...
Posted 9 years ago # - "The number of cycle parking
-
"
The £850m St James Quarter has secured a new form of public private partnership that would see £61m invested by the taxpayer through the Regeneration Accelerator Model - which combines local and national government funding with private investment in local infrastructure and public space.
The Scottish Government can then claw this loan back through increased business rates over the next 25 years. Around 2,300 jobs are expected to be created from the new St James Quarter which developers TH Real Estate say will catapult Edinburgh in the top five UK cities for shopping.
"
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/council-parties-slam-61m-st-james-quarter-loan-1-3395882
Posted 9 years ago # -
So, minimum 900 bike parking spaces in the new development then?
That I'd like to see! Maybe they could look to Leipzig for examples. City in former Eadt Germany, about the same population as Edinburgh, bicycles (and bike parking) everywhere.
Something like this Fahrrad Garage could be interesting for some of the space in the underground car park? Need to be near the surface mind you, with its own entrance.
Posted 9 years ago # -
900 isn't nearly enough.
Matching the car parking spaces alone would mean 1800 spaces bike parking spaces.
If half the staff require a parking space that makes 1150-1250 depending on who you believe and if half the shoppers also need a space that would need at least another 2500 based on annual footfall of 13.5 and just a half hour average visit time. I suspect the average visitor is there for longer than that so 5000 bike parking spaces wouldn't seem unreasonable.Posted 9 years ago # -
So council spending £61,000,000 to encourage 1,800 cars into town. Only £33,888 a space! You can buy one of those private garages down a Stockbridge Mews for that.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Don't think things are as neat as that!
Not convinced that 'we' should be borrowing money for this development - though it would help if Picardy Place, Leith Street, etc. were sorted 'properly'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Don't think things are as neat as that!
You're right. It's £850 million in total, isn't it? A snappy £472k per space. Car parking spaces much bring in a LOT of business!
Posted 9 years ago # -
If half the staff require a parking space
But surely they won't? The office building I work in in George Street accommodates (roughly) 500 people. There are spaces for (roughly) 12 cars in the basement car park.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Sorry PS I was referring to cycle parking spaces as per the cycle space specification. Although reading my post now I was somewhat inconsistent.
That's sounds very similar to where I used to work. There was also a bike rack for 4 bikes and anything up to 10 bikes in the garage by the time I left.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Ah, got you @acsimpson. We have no bike racks in the basement, but several bits of metalwork to chain up to (although most people seems happy enough to just lean their bike against the wall as the carpark is gated and so relatively secure).
Anyways, back OnTopic, 1800 car parking spaces does seem an astonishing number. It's surely the most well connected development site in Edinburgh - I gave up counting the Lothian Bus routes that pass alongside it when I got to 25. Then there's the tram. It must be entirely park and rideable?
However, if it does mean we can remove parking from George Street, St Andrew Square and other city centre streets as a development dividend, then I'm all for it. Of course, CEC will lose out on parking income and the developers will benefit, unless the Council can get in on the deal.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Buses and trams are all very well but how will folk get their fridges and washing machines home after buying them in John Lewis? They must sell at least 1800 of those every day. Whaddayamean they deliver them?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Sound like they need a cargo bike/trailer rental scheme to compliment the bike parking.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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No doubt this is one (minor) thing that will be sorted out as part of this grand development -
(No idea if this sign is still legal.)
Posted 9 years ago # -
There's some sort of scheme I saw plans for about opening up a lot of the routes betwixt St. Andrew Square and former St. James Square, including through the RBS site (there's a lot of unused space at the back and some 1960s additions to the building which I believe are due to be demolished).
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
St James tram deal to edge route closer to Leith...
The extension project would see a programme of costly underground utility diversions and enabling works taking place outside St Mary’s Cathedral.
"
And I thought the utilities had been done on LW!!?
Posted 9 years ago # -
And I thought the utilities had been done on LW!!?
Maybe not on Picardy Place?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I wonder how much more money the council would have to "lend" them to get the tramline completed.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Soon, as we revealed yesterday, the demolition teams will be back, this time to raze the hideous concrete to the ground in favour of an £850 million retail paradise, with shops, hotel, leisure facilities and homes.
Careful what you wish for. The original development was also intended as an expensive, modern "retail paradise, with shops, hotel leisure facilities..." although maybe no homes.
Posted 9 years ago # -
May need a new thread for this thought? (@chdot)...
but on scrutiny of the detail from Henderson Global, I see no obvious integrated provision for maximising the Leith Street and Picardy Place junctions towards improving the lot of the cyclist! I hope Ms Hinds (Transport Guru Edinburgh) has her tram finger on the pulse here!
Retail therapy is all very well, but it is not good press when the trams and cars are still mashing up the peds and cyclists outside our dear Cathedral!Posted 9 years ago #
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