@fimm, actually I think it's important that women-led discussions on cycling aren't dominated by child transport issues and other voices are heard, especially experienced and confident bike users. My bottom line is that road space needs to be taken away from cars and given over for exclusive and separated cycle and ped use. I believe visible prioritising of bike use can contribute to changing attitudes and ultimately driving behaviours where bikes and cars share infrastructure. That would benefit all types of cycling.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
We Walk, We Cycle, We Vote
(118 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Fimm - "How do we get to a place where I don't have to fight for a safe place on the roads?"
I suspect that LH would be interested to hear any ideas that experienced/confident cyclists have that challenge the notion of 'you just have to wo/man up'!
She has feared cycling on roads for many years, always citing Crewe Road roundabout as something that puts her off.
This year she bought a bike from the Bike Station and cycled to and from PoP - and has been seen on a bike since.
I assume she is now very aware of the inadequacies of the infrastructure - how it doesn't join-up and it still favours motor vehicles. (I'm sure she still believes in "traffic flow").
I think it will be very valuable to tell her that even experienced and confident (one doesn't necessarily lead to the other) cyclists still get inconvenienced and scared.
At least LH now has some 'experience' - she is also well aware of many more people who haven't been willing/able to attempt cycling as 'transport'.
Posted 8 years ago # -
'Hello, I'm Fimm, I don't have children, I race bicycles for fun, but...'
Posted 8 years ago # -
That's really the question, isn't it?
"How do we give our politicians the confidence to take measures that will be unpopular in the short term, in order for there to be a long term benefit?"(Point of excessive pedantry - I'm not a racing cyclist, I'm a triathlete/fitness cyclist/utility cyclist. I guess that's where my experience is useful, in that I wear the two hats (or plastic-headcoverings-of-debatable-utility) of fast(er) cyclist and utility cyclist.)
Need to look at dates.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"How do we give our politicians the confidence to take measures that will be unpopular in the short term"
The good thing is that (particularly in Edinburgh) there's increasing evidence that people think better cycle (and walk) infrastructure is wanted/needed.
Seems to be more a question of 'how to persuade politicians that the EN - and particularly its commenters - are not representative'!
Hope there's a suitable space in your diary.
Ps
I didn't realise you did the cycle bit of triathlons at utility speeds...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I didn't realise you did the cycle bit of triathlons at utility speeds..."
LOL.Posted 8 years ago # -
I thought it was a new sort of triathalon: First you race, and then you have to sprint round Tesco and bring a week's shopping back on your bike.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I might be able to make it over from Edinburgh. There's a number of factors which need to fall into place to allow me to make it though.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hahaha.
I've always fancied doing a tri on the Brompton, but I think people would think I was taking the <whatever>. You do get all sorts of bikes in tri (though my current race bike would definitely fail the "ability to carry a week's shopping" test...).Posted 8 years ago # -
Last of the conference bike rides - Perth on Saturday 31st, for the Labour party http://walkcyclevote.scot/labour-party-conference-ride-31st-october/
If nothing else, I'm getting an interesting tour of Scotland by train and bike, although an ill-timed holiday meant I couldn't make the Dunfermline event
Posted 8 years ago # -
Right, I've signed up to the WCF Edinburgh event.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Good!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Me too!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Better! (No reflection on fimm.)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Update for this weekend - we'll now be meeting in Perth at 3pm for the ride, and then returning to the conference venue to meet with Sarah Boyack and Claudia Beamish at 5:15pm as the conference closes. Sorry about the short notice
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hope SB will be planning to put workplace parking (and many other things) in the Holyrood manifesto.
They could promise so much - without any fear of having to implement anything...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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Right. Looks like I'll make the event tonight. Looking forward to meeting/seeing some of the rest of you too.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Indeed.
I've still not got much idea of what I'd like to say/contribute/whatever...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Not feeling terribly bright but plan to drag myself up town for 8pm nonetheless - slightly nervous that I might not be able to think of anything intelligent to say. I might be the one lurking at the back of the room and trying to look voterly...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Running commentary -
Posted 8 years ago # -
I hope people who went will take time to 'report' here.
Twitter isn't always reliable...
Did some/all politicians agree 'something must be done'?
Did any offer reasons for hope?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'd love to hear what participants thought of last night! I was running around doing a running twitter commentary (and will do a storify out of that) but it meant I was just picking up snatches of conversations rather than sit through and listen properly. There did seem to be a buzz in the room, and the comments I have had were mostly positive from those who took part (I think Joan McAlpine, who had stepped in at the last minute, was a bit shellshocked by the end though). It did feel (from what I could gather) that there were some real conversations going on, if not always a meeting of minds. Lesley Hinds (who was giving as good as she got in the conversations I overheard) gave us a nice plug at the conference today and said she'd enjoyed it and found it worthwhile. Some might argue that if the politicians enjoy it then it's not tough enough, but I think that they are human and thus more likely to listen if not in defensive mode.
On the down side - we hadn't bought anything like enough wine and I think we didn't quite allow enough time
Posted 8 years ago # -
First time I've been to this sort of event, and it did seem pretty useful. All the politicians seemed to be actually listening to a greater or lesser extent. I quite enjoyed the turnaround at our table when they (I foret who exactly!) were quizzed on the best tactics for harrassing them and their colleagues to get action. (I am DREADFUL at names. Even with name badges.) Next time I'd try and have more coherent questions prepared in advance...
The wine was very welcome (and wasn't there an inch or so left over?!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I really enjoyed #WCV, even though I seemed to be the only one wearing lycra. Sorry, letting the side down again, but the big red machine is a bit hot work for wearing anything heavier.
Lesley Hinds was on a mission and had a fair amount to say; I tried to tease out her own experiences of doing a bit of cycling. She uses public transport a lot; I intensely dislike using buses but I like the trams. I fired in here and there and got a bit worked up about behavioural change campaigns and how safety isn't just for the less experienced. The wine may have fortified me somewhat.
Our table had a good regionality to it though, from Edinburghey discussions (LH, JM) to rural areas (JMcA) to national (MC, AJ). I think 15 minutes might have worked better, maybe? At our table each of the politicians was keen to carry on the discussions after the bell rang. My own observation was that Lesley Hinds and Alison Johnstone were particularly well prepared, and Joan McAlpine was certainly taking plenty of notes.
Well done to Sally and Suzanne and everyone else who helped make it happen.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I found Lesley Hinds a bit annoying - she seemed more keen to say stuff rather than listen. The Conservative councillor overcame my prejudices! and the LibDem (I assume - we did have one from each party, didn't we) was good for suggestions as to how to continue to keep active travel on the agenda (go to a hustings and ask about it - now I need to find out about hustings!)
Joan McAlpine, having said that infrastructure is key, then went on and on about budget cuts and how there's no money, and wasn't taking Kim's question about "So why are we wasting millions on dualling the A9 when it isn't at capacity?" for an answer.
I could have done without the other man on our table, though, I felt he dominated slightly. It would have been nice if he'd introduced himself, too. (Anyone know who he was?) I wish I'd taken a couple of minutes before we got going for the group round the table to introduce ourselves to one another - that's one thing I'd suggest for the next time. And yes, it did feel a little bit rushed.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Oh, and did anyone accept Weezee's invitation for a ride in her cargo bike?
It was nice to meet Weezee, briefly, but I don't think I met Unhurt; I know HankChief was there but don't remember seeing him!
Posted 8 years ago # -
This is also on another thread but probably better here.
"We need to be more sophisticated than this."
True, but if people (eg Leslie Hinds - and politicians generally) are saying 'but this is UK/Scotland/Edinburgh' we need to know what they mean (and/or what they believe).
To what extent is it that people (inc politicians, planners and engineers) don't like change?
To what extent is it that people (inc politicians, planners and engineers) don't like really considering 'best practice'?
To what extent is it that people (inc politicians, planners and engineers) don't like being shown to be 'wrong'/'behind the curve'?
How much is there belief/evidence/'fact' that people "here" are 'different'?
To what extent is the law the 'problem'/'excuse'?
'We' know how difficult it is getting things done (and how long it takes!) - due to consultation/TROs.
We are also told that 'elsewhere' road layouts were changed "overnight". This seems to be almost true in New York in recent years (not without objections). Is this because 'laws are different' or politicians/officials are more willing/able to 'experiment' - and/or have better ideas in the first place (see George Street)?
Etc.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I know I talked too much (I always do, despite best intentions), but some of it was in response to Lesley being in full politician mode. also Joan McAlpine pushing 'behavioural change'. to be fair, I'm not sure how convinced she was of it, I suspect she felt she had to tout the party line.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I suspect she felt she had to tout the party line."
Perhaps, did she adequately explain what she/ScotGov meant - and how long it would take?
'behavioural change' is clearly needed, and there are all sorts of theories about how to make it happen - inc "nudges".
Is SG actually doing anything other than spending lots of money on (easily derided) advertising campaigns and related web sites?
Posted 8 years ago #
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