@frenchy, thanks for that correction.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Trams to Granton
(175 posts)-
Posted 5 months ago #
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Back to the future - on Friday we will publish plans for consultation on a tramline which links: Granton - Edinburgh College - The Western General - Craigleith Retail Park - City Centre - Edinburgh University - Cameron Toll - The Royal Infirmary - The Bioquarter - And beyond!
This line makes so much sense that I really believe it should have been Edinburgh's first!
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Posted 3 months ago # -
But will there be route options??
Posted 3 months ago # -
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The recommended route for the tram to Granton has just been published. LibDem councillors in Edinburgh are open to extending the tram but we cannot and will not support losing the Telford / Roseburn path as proposed. 1/3
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https://twitter.com/kevin_lang/status/1750934102335947156
Map with 3 options
Posted 3 months ago # -
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BUT Tram routes...
Looks like appalling recommendation to remove bicycles from Roseburn path
Sounds like adopting the 'do minimum' B1a option which was rejected here--
https://cycleparking.net/cycle-routes/ESSTS%20Phase%202%20Report.pdf
& a mockery of the #Roseburn-#Canal project!
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Posted 3 months ago # -
Haven’t read it all
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4.12 The alternative route, the Orchard Brae Corridor, would enable the Roseburn Path
to be retained as a dedicated active travel corridor and would avoid the
environmental impacts along the path. However, there would be limited opportunity
to enhance segregated cycling in conjunction with tram along this corridor and, at
some locations (e.g. Crewe Road South), existing cycle provision may need to be
removed. Furthermore, Dean Bridge is a significant constraint, and it would not be
possible to provide segregated cycling facilities at this location without a new
structure. Journey time and reliability for tram would be reduced due to the impact
of traffic congestion and further constraints. There would also be local ecological
impacts and wider impacts on current and potential bus and network capacity.“
This is basically rubbish, unless trams are planned every minute or so.
PLUS Dean Bridge at present is no fun for cycling.
Posted 3 months ago # -
I think this is all now in the realms of fantasy. A £2bn tram extension. The Scottish Government has allocated precisely £0 for bus priority measures in 2024-25. It has cancelled Strathclyde Partnership for Transport's entire capital budget. Investment in Scottish rail infrastructure renewals is being cut by £315m over the next five years, when compared with the previous five years.
I don't think people realise how bad the public finances are looking - a lot of services are running on fumes, working out of buildings in states of near collapse. Add in a £50m bill to fix RAAC in Edinburgh schools, I don't see how these proposals can be treated seriously.
Given this and the urgent need to act on climate change, I would argue the age of the mega project is dead. We need quick and effective interventions. Road space reallocated to bus, bike and foot - NOT gold plated George Street style boulevards, but rubber kerbed bike lanes and camera enforced, painted bus lanes linking a network of park and ride sites.
We really don't need endless business case development (£44m for the tram extension) and the lining of consultants pockets. We need action.
Posted 3 months ago # -
@ Morningsider
Totally agree
But somehow we live in a totally parallel universe from politicians who order officials to indulge their fantasies.
AND politicians so scared of voters/vested interests that they are scared/too stupid to say ‘look, widening the A9 and building a roundabout at Sheriffhall might have made sense 20 years ago, but it doesn’t now. Anyway we don’t have the money AND there are more pressing priorities’.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Absolutely, it's mad that we're sitting on our hands waiting years for big flashy nonsense when we could be spending our limited funds on stuff that could be in place almost immediately with ETROs. Also I do find the LDs sudden dedication to the innate value of greenspace a little sus, but no I'm probably just being cynical, their staunch defence of the path couldn't possibly be because preserving the path means cycling can be kept off the roads...
Posted 3 months ago # -
We need to protest and we need to start getting disruptive. Nothing else is working
Posted 3 months ago # -
well, you've got the Lib Dems on your side...
Posted 3 months ago # -
I see the chipwrapper is reporting as much. "Cycle path to be taken over for new Edinburgh tram route."
Not that the 'paper has ever championed anything active travelly anyway.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Well their ‘news’ is based on Twitter.
Not so much on there about the Circulation Plan, that’s likely to be ‘controversial’ when more people understand the implications…
Posted 3 months ago # -
“
Liberal Democrat councillor Kevin Lang says a recommended extension to the Scottish capital’s tram network (link is external), which will be scrutinised by the City of Edinburgh Council next week, would lead to the loss of the “well-used” and “much-loved” Roseburn green active travel corridor, a decision described as “appalling” by the Spokes Cycle Campaign.
“
https://road.cc/content/news/travesty-if-tram-plan-leads-loss-cycle-path-306435
Posted 3 months ago # -
I've seen some grousing that routing the tram on the road will be insurmountably difficult due to having to demolish the fire station on the corner at Crewe Toll and there's nowhere else for it to go - I wonder, who owns the big parking lot *right next* to the fire station and if it's not the council or the fire service, can they not just compulsory purchase that and build it there? They could even design-in an All Stop phase for the junction that the station can trigger when they need to deploy.
Posted 3 months ago # -
@Yodhrin, are they suggesting the tram would be coming down Telford Road rather than Crewe Road South? Even if that were to be the case I don't think the fire station would have to go to allow an equivalent turning radius to what is used either side of St Andrew's Square. It would likely encroach onto the car park of the fire station but I'm sure that could be relocated quite easily.
Posted 3 months ago # -
@Yodhrin - that would be Leonardo
Posted 3 months ago # -
@acsimpson no that was my bad, I was mixing up the crewe road south plan with Arthur's "mixed" route that takes the tram off the path at groathill and along telford.
Posted 3 months ago # -
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Proposal to ‘discourage’ (or remove?) cycling from 2km of North Edinburgh Network
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Posted 3 months ago # -
Posted 3 months ago #
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In Gorgie/Dalry, there isn't great access to green space
Many people use the Roseburn Path for walking, cycling, jogging, commuting. The Canal-Roseburn Link is about to open up access to many more
There are other valid perspectives, but I'm hearing a hard NO from Gorgie/Dalry
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Posted 3 months ago # -
Something to consider when CEC ‘promises’ fabulous new infrastructure -
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Improving the atrocious pedestrian route to Waverley Station was part of the 'Active Travel Programme' in 2018. But has inexplicably been dropped: we are trying to find out why...
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https://twitter.com/LivingStreetsEd/status/1738088227620397276
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Response from @Edinburgh_CC officials on Calton Rd: "This was put on hold due to potential interactions with other nearby developments [Leith Street/St James and Waverley Station Masterplan]. It is not something that we are currently actively progressing"
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https://twitter.com/livingstreetsed/status/1752227142476198177?
Posted 3 months ago # -
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I agree, however my worry is that cyclists will be denied access to the Roseburn path, and there will still be no segregated on road provision.
Having tried various routes over the years from south Edinburgh to the wgh, where I work, the rb path feels by far the safest.
“
https://twitter.com/jackiegrove11/status/1752157515000009214?
Posted 3 months ago # -
"No construction to start on the path until parallel segregated cycle routes are finished being installed" would be a reasonable stance, then I'd be behind putting the tram along there.
Issue is.. What's parallel? Queensferry Road, Crewe Road, Ferry Road?
The path is actually a bit of a rubbish route for short, local journeys, goes through a lot of low density housing and not much else.
Posted 3 months ago # -
"The path is actually a bit of a rubbish route for short, local journeys"
Depends on where you are going from and to I guess, but I find it pretty useful quite often.
- The gradients are kind
- No start/stopping; it's pretty quick
- Don't need to think (much)It's also part of NCN 1 so what are Sustrans saying about this?
Posted 3 months ago # -
@toomanybikes I have zero confidence they'll put cycling provision on Ferry Road, 100% they'll expect people to keep using the NEPN section alongside just as they have with Inverleith Row - it *could* be done, but they'd have to realign the junction at Granton Road to have continuous lanes across it and keep the turning lane or remove that, and the pinch point at the Inverleith Row junction is just above 8m. They could just squeeze in minimum-spec lanes on either side if they nixed the right turn lane, but hahahah no, that'll never happen. Then further along at Newhaven the road goes below 8m, the only option there would be to make it one-way or bus gate it, and that certainly won't happen.
It's the same issue the "high quality on road alternative" will have when they come to build it; Orchard Brae has a couple of those pinch points, there's only actually room for an uphill cycle lane, they're going to end up expecting people to mix with general traffic on the way down - which is hardly equivalent "all ages" provision to the path - and that's assuming they can run the gauntlet when the consultation comes up and parents realise all the parking spots for the school run will have to go.
As long as their primary concerns are traffic flow and motorist convenience there's no version of an on-road network for Edinburgh that will actually be a network.
That said, I also don't understand why they're talking about discouraging cycling from the post-tram path either - sure there are pinch points, but some of those will have engineering solutions that don't cost a fortune(Spokes' "do medium" proposal), and if anything the post-tram version of the path will be more of a commuter cycling path than anything else given they're going to have to strip out most of the greenery on those sections to make room; who's going to *want* to walk it for pleasure anymore?
Posted 3 months ago # -
Orchard Brae isn’t really fundamental to the road network for cars though - they could just filter it
Posted 3 months ago # -
Cycled along the path beside the tramline between Balgreen and Saughton earlier today. I think this is roughly what the proposed Roseburn Path would be like, but with a smaller gap between the tramline and the path - maybe 1-2m instead of ~5m? I'd be quite happy with that...
Posted 3 months ago # -
Of course, one issue is the many years it would be closed during construction.
Posted 3 months ago # -
@neddie They could, but will they? The document pretty firmly takes a "bus routes aren't changing, moving, or being impeded in any way whatsoever" stance so they'd have to bus gate it at the top, and probably a "resident access only" one at the bottom as well or it'll still be a car park at school drop off times.
I can already imagine the traffic officers recoiling in horror from the additional traffic load their models would tell them would come to surrounding streets, and no doubt the News would be full of lamentations about people unable to cross the Rubicon to see their poor sick granny at the Western etc etc.
@Frenchy - whisper it, but it might even be more pleasant to cycle in the summer without the rainforest trapping in heat and clouds of bugs. I get all the concerns - night time safety, biodiversity loss, harm to the bluegreen network - I really do, but a post-tram path if they can solve the pinch points really does sound quite appealing if your goal is getting places rather than experiencing nature.
Posted 3 months ago #
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