CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Preventing Dangerous Overtaking

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  1. Kenny
    Member

    I have on occasion used a tactic to prevent cars from overtaking which doesn't sound like it should work, but seems to work 99% of the time. And what's more, it doesn't seem to irritate drivers in the same way that taking primary does.

    The scenario is relatively specific, but happens a lot - you're coming up to some kind of pinch point, there's a vehicle behind you and you can hear from its engine that it's going to try to overtake and that, with the pinch point coming up, they have not realised that the speed the bicycle is going at, this isn't going to end well (for the cyclist, anyway).

    What I now do when this situation is about to happen is simply to look over my right shoulder at the vehicle. Indeed, not even so much as turning my head right round, but merely turning it enough so that I can see him out of the side of my eye, much like I would when I'm glancing behind me, but keeping my head turned like that for a good couple of seconds. It helps that I tend to ride with sunglasses on, because this means I can actually continue to look straight ahead with my eyes, but the driver behind me doesn't know this and thinks I'm continuing to look at him.

    What seems to happen is that the driver then slows down. Very, _very_ rarely does the driver continue with their manoeuvre. Indeed, I can't recall the last time the driver did this.

    It seems an odd tactic that really shouldn't work, but for some reason, it does. Maybe the driver is suddenly thrown into the mindset that the cyclist, now watching them, is carefully watching whatever stupidity they are going to attempt *before* it happens, and therefore they think twice about doing it. I'm really not sure. But as I say, it seems to work.

    Does anyone else do this, and finds it works the same way? If you've never tried it, I'd be interested in others trying it and seeing whether it really does work, or whether I'm kidding myself.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    I have done it, but it seems to me that most (not all) drivers attempt the overtake anyway. I think this is because they are not really observing the cyclist ahead, they're looking at how big the gap is, trying to figure out relative closing speeds, etc. In short they are just considering "How do I get past that cyclist?" rather than "Oh I might hit that cyclist". So many get it wrong too: if I didn't instinctively hover my hands over the brakes when I hear that revving engine sound (the better to slam them on as a numpty tries to "squeeze past") I reckon I'd have had a serious collision by now.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. cc
    Member

    Interesting. I haven't tried that.
    What I do is (a) move right out into the middle of the road for the pinch point and (b) avoid that sort of road.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    basically same maneuver as you would make if turning right, or pulling out into road to avoid a pot-hole?

    yeah, I find that does tend to work too. I do this a lot on Gilmore PLace, where cars often feel tempted to speed, but where I have to make right hand turns both heading towards and away from town. especially if I have kids on, the cars do hang back.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. sallyhinch
    Member

    Oddly, out here in rural Dumfriesshire, many drivers won't overtake a bike on a single track road *until* you turn and look at them, or the road widens out. The logic (I think) is that they're not sure you've seen them until you look and they don't want you getting all startled and falling off. I think it's similar logic to passing a horse and rider

    And yes, it is a different planet down here :-)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Kenny
    Member

    many drivers won't overtake a bike on a single track road *until* you turn and look at them

    Which reminds me of something that happened last week; a car was hanging behind me as we went round a blind corner, I could see that the road ahead was clear before he could, so I waved him to pass me, which he did, and... he thanked me with a wave. I couldn't believe it!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. PS
    Member

    @mkns That's pretty common in my experience. You hear a car behind you, look over your shoulder at it and the driver knows you are aware of their presence. If you stay out in primary the driver will have to assume you are doing it for a reason. Wave them past and they'll say thanks.

    So much bad behaviour on the roads (and in life) is due to failure to communicate. I can completely understand drivers getting irritated by cylists who seem to ignore their presence and vice versa. We should all try harder.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. allebong
    Member

    I've become so utterly sick of pinch points that I'm now commuting a completely different route just to avoid them. My old route took me from just before Chesser on Stenhouse road, down to the Balgreen roundabout, then Stevenson/Westfield road and onto Haymarket via Roseburn street and West Coates. I sometimes feel this route was just an exercise to see how many pinch points could be fitted in while still technically having two lanes. I've had countless bad encounters between traffic islands, parked cars and blind corners. The monstrosity of the roadworks outside the Sainsburys at Murrayfield pushed me over the edge and I'm now taking a longer but much calmer route through Saughton park and the WoL path/Roseburn Park. Despite the added length it's pretty much the same time due to much fewer lights and dodgy junctions. I'm also massively less stressed when I head out as I know I don't have to face nearly as much nonsense on the roads.

    So if you're really dreading a certain pinch point, just avoid it, even if it adds 5 mins to your journey. I'm sure people have thought of this without actually committing to it (I did for long enough) but for me it's been totally worth the change for the reduction in stress.

    Inevitably I still have to face pinches, and while I used to be quite passive, I now just take the primary well before I anticipate any silly behaviour starting. I've actually found this makes the whole affair much neater. I think a great deal of the problem comes from people behind not knowing if you're going to be swerving in or out and deciding to just slide in before the pinch. If you're out in the primary then everyone knows exactly what's happening. Sure, you still get people being impatient and getting right close, but the vast majority of people seem to be okay with just waiting 5 seconds for me to get through.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "through Saughton park and the WoL path/Roseburn Park"

    Would be nice if that bit had a proper surface!

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9584

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. Roibeard
    Member

    Unfortunately different approaches might work with different drivers, the thing is that you don't know which one is following you!

    I think the "look" has been studied and appears to be related to face-recognition. The driver sees a face, and instinctively that makes you (more) human.

    Anecdotal evidence suggests a well timed wobble may work, as might appearing to ignore the driver (watch them in your peripheral vision!) as then they can't rely on you cooperating by moving out of their way. Roadies also make themselves look bigger (they seem to refer to it as "elbows out") and I've even indicated right ("roadcraft stytle", straight arm, straight out from the shoulder), with no intent to turn right...

    As for pinch points, yep, using cyclists as mobile traffic calming devices is horrible, and part of the "shared space" myth - cyclists will slow drivers, making it more comfortable for cycling. Something only imagined by traffic engineers that have never held a driver behind them at a cycling pace!

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "Busting the myth that road narrowing schemes are good for cyclists"

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9795

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. Focus
    Member

    "Which reminds me ...
    I waved him to pass me, which he did, and... he thanked me with a wave."

    I find I get a thank you about 40% of the time, and almost never if the vehicle ends up being a BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar. I tend to get a more favourable reaction on quieter country roads than in more urban areas, possibly because country-living locals are more appreciative of you saving them time than city slickers are?

    I often wonder why I bother to wave people through but I remind myself that it at least means one potential deadly weapon is now ahead of me instead of up my hypothetical tailpipe!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. Focus
    Member

    As for the "professional wobble", I'm not sure that works too well when you're on a road bike in lycra - the driver just won't buy it. But a few moves around potholes - real or imaginary - is a suitable substitute sometimes.
    I take primary at things like islands and look behind me as well if practical. But having reflective shades might be taken as intimidatory by those drivers looking to be annoyed.

    One issues I've had 3 or 4 times riding along Craigcrook Road is idiots actually passing me at speed on the wrong side of one of the traffic islands outside Ravelston Park! Crazy enough at the best of times, but outside a park where dozens of young children play?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. fimm
    Member

    I ride a road with a load of traffic calming islands in Livingston. They're not quite pinch points as most of them have enough spave for a bike and a car, but I don't want to have someone squeeze past me when the car is doing 40+ (40 being the speed limit), so I've got rather good at getting my own bit of the road. Given that there's not much else to worry about, (it is a long straight with not many junctions) I can and do cycle along glaring over my shoulder at the driver who seems to be thinking about squeezing through. It does seem to work; well, at least, I am still here...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. wingpig
    Member

    Despite several pointed looks (in addition to normal info-gathering looks) I still had someone perform an extended overtake all the way between the left-hand towards the roundabout at the bottom of the Canongate and the right-hand turn past the big palace gates on Lady Wynd, despite the presence of large buses and cars going past the buses on the other side of the road at the left-hand bend. The driver was doing that looking-straight-ahead thing, as do those who possibly have noticed you deep-down but do not wish to acknowledge your insignificant presence, despite your primary position.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. allebong
    Member

    With regards to people going the wrong way round traffic islands to overtake, I have seen this on occasion, but it never seems to occur when there's an 18 wheeler or double decker bus in the oncoming lane.

    Funny that.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. splitshift
    Member

    joining up various threads here, including the i had a lovely ride today, and the preventing overtaking.........
    Pinch points today, travelling through the traffic calmed village of Polmont,wet, cold, almost sleet like rain,bus approaching from rear, I judged it all good and the bus overtakes me, very wide , and safe,just to hear the black ford focus reving as it clearly was driven by a VIP. 2 traffic calming humps ahead i can see the bus indicating a stop at the bus stop,guess what, mrs (it was a woman ) focus HAS to get passed the bike so she speeds past, too close and almost instantly has to slam on the anchors to prevent rear ending the bus ! I slowly overtake the ford , on the off side, just so I can glare , and the bus driver , i can see him in his mirror, is looking at me and laughing, he waves me past ,on his off side again , he then slowly takes up the whole road preventing mrs focus getting past. I turn of onto side cycle lane and bus speeds past, horn tooting, and the driver thumbs up and laughing and pointing behind at the focus driver !
    As for 18 wheelers on the other side of traffic islands, you should see the faces when i overtake, on the other side of the islands,when i am in my 18 wheeler ! not quite but you get the idea ! A great few hours out today, visiting the library, the post office and other places that i really should have needed the car to get to !
    scott

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    A great few hours out today, visiting the library, the post office and other places that i really should have needed the car to get to !

    Oooh, and in this rain too! That's "brave"... ;-)

    Posted 12 years ago #

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