Bike upgrade - drop bars, clips. Any real advantage over current bike?

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Bike upgrade - drop bars, clips. Any real advantage over current bike?

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Started 11 years ago by Two Tired
Latest reply from Roibeard

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Two Tired
Member

Hello all, happy Saturday!

I currently ride a Specialized Sirrus Elite (2010), specs here:

http://m.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/sirrus-elite-2010-hybrid-bike-ec020016

Tomorrow I am heading out for a ride with a couple of guys from work who I have a feeling will leave me for carbon framed, dropped bar, clip tinged dust pretty early on. Of course I plan to blame this, at least to my pride, on the superiority of their bike builds for speed - the lighter frame, dropped bar position, clipped in feet etc.

The logical next step is then to use this as the last nail in the sound proofed coffin for my conscience. Allowing me to start seriously looking at new road bikes online. My question is this: given my current setup, would dropped bars, clipped in feet etc really make much of a difference to my times? I dont want to spend my shiney bunse on a new bike if I'm not going to feel any appreciable difference over the course of a ride. I love my current bike to bits but this hankering for a mile eating machine is getting hard to control :-)

Posted 11 years ago #
Smudge
Member

Hmm, depends...!
Drop bars can make life easier when you're pushing into a headwind, and give you a range of hand positions if you find one limiting. They will only make you "faster" if you use the drops lots and your back/stomach/thigh muscles can del with the new position.
Clipped in has pretty similar performance advantages to toeclips, definitely can help as you are pulling up as well as pushing down, more balanced training for your legs as well.
If it has sportier wheels/tyres it may also give a little more speed, at the cost of comfort.

Ultimately though, many of the forumers on here could ride a 50's policeman's bike and still leave me behind even if I was riding a TT bike :-/
;-)
(That said, I do have an audaxy bike though as it's less tiring over distance than a utility/comfort machine!)

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Hmm, depends...!"

Indeed..

As above, plus lighter/skinnier tyres on existing bike might make a bit of difference.

You know having more than one bike makes sense...

But - money, storage, etc.

Assuming your companions are similar size, swap bikes for a few miles (though practicality may depend on what sort of pedals they have - unless you can swap shoes too!)

Posted 11 years ago #
allebong
Member

I switched from flats to SPDs on my general purpose tourer bike - flat bars, slicks, rack, mudguards etc so not the fastest thing around but not too sluggish. First thing I did was set the release spring tension as low as it will go so they are very easy to clip in and out of. So far after 6 months on SPDs I have avoided any 'clipless moments'....we'll see how long I can keep that up...

Clipless definitely takes quite a bit of getting used to. To begin with I just pedalled like they were flats until I was familiar with unclipping at lights etc. It took a few hundred miles for me to 'get it' but once I did I've found a very considerable improvement in performance. At the very least I've added 1-2mph to my average speed, which doesn't sound like much, but it adds up over longer rides. The single biggest change is climbing - you can really haul yourself up much more aggressively and last longer as you can shift the load around all your leg muscles. One for the 'why didn't I do this sooner' category.

Posted 11 years ago #
wingpig
Member

Two years clipless without mis-hap, at low enough tension and with multi-release cleats to ensure that a hard enough yank in any direction releases them. Definitely slightly easier gripping a pedal in the rain.

Posted 11 years ago #
Kenny
Member

Another thing that might make you fall behind your mates is the gear ratios. You basically have a cyclocross set of gears on that, since your big ring only goes to 48 and your smallest cog on your cassette is a 12. My summer roadie goes up to 53/11, which is likely what your companions will have if they have carbon bikes.

Posted 11 years ago #
Uberuce
Member

You can test the waters by getting SPDs right now. I came from toestraps to SPDs, which is a lesser jump than from flats. Even so, I was another example of the SPD cliché: when I got a fancypants bike that came with them I went from 'I can't see how they can be worth the fuss' to 'why didn't I get these before now' in around four minutes and was back at the bike shop the next day to put a pair on my daily workhorse.

With drops it might just be that those bikes don't suit you, but the only way to find out to have the use of one for several weeks or months - they'll feel horrible at first but you'll take that long to settle into your ideal drop-bar position. Or it will turn out you don't have one.

Unless you have very generous and n-plus-onney friends this kinda means you'll need the n+1 of your own.

If it turns out that drops and you just don't mesh, then it's the work of some eBaying to sell them and their STIs and use that to fund flats, brake levers and thumb shifters.

Posted 11 years ago #
remberbuck
Member

Can I suggest you stick with what you have? You have a perfectly adequate bike that does what you want, and no amount of money will turn it into what you will think a comparative road bike. Why? Because leaving aside the weight question, you will not get the frame geometry, and it is the response and aggression this delivers that separates in performance the hybrid from the road bike.

As a simple comparison. I changed my cyclocross tyres for speedier ones for the summer, found that I had changed a pretty good cyclocross bike into an average road bike and so changed back.

One simple change would be bar ends. Drop bars give you hand placement variety, which helps on long rides, and this would give you something similar. Your wrists will appreciate the gesture! Some of the ergonomic handle bar grips come with mini bar ends, again they will help.

On clipless pedals I found little difficulty getting used to them, about a week and that was with Look Classics through Tollcross and Haymarket. With SPDs a couple of days should do, just remember to unclip early so you don't panic and end up with a Tom and Jerry moment.

And, next month is July when the retailers have to get rid of what they over purchased at the February trade sales, so bargains ahead if you want to look at a pure road bike.

Good luck.

Posted 11 years ago #
stiltskin
Member

I have had a Sirrus in the past. Great bike for around town and shorter rides. Off the top of my head I'd say the road bike I had at the same time (Trek 1200) was about 15-20% faster overall. Just my opinion.

Posted 11 years ago #
Blueth
Member

I'm sure it must be possible to hire such a bike to try the theory.

I admit to having bought a road bike (I had been thinking about something lighter for a while) as it was heftily reduced in the sale and indeed I replaced the rubbish pedals with SPDs to try them but I recognise that basically I ain't got the legs to get any real advantage out of it.

Posted 11 years ago #
Instography
Member

I've seen a mate whizz up Arthur's Seat on a £60 flat-barred raleigh something or other, while wearing his combat shorts and work boots (and Spongebob socks), easily passing another mate on his £2500 carbon thingymabob. Sadly, it's not about the bike or most of the other gear. Fitness and power to weight ratios. And spinning.

I'd make an exception for SPDs. Clipped in feet will make a difference on hills if you've got used to them to the extent that you can have your feet solidly clipped up and can therefore pull up on the pedal as well as push down. On the flat, you can also do Graeme Obree's cool pedalling trick.

Posted 11 years ago #
Smudge
Member

@Insto "Sadly, it's not about the bike or most of the other gear. Fitness and power to weight ratios."

Agreed, however one individual may gain a little speed/endurance with a change of bike, my roadbike is approximately 3mph quicker on average on an easy cruise over mixed hilly terrain when compared with my (heavier, wider tyred) tourer, which is itself quicker than my MTB on the road, which is not too heavy but hampered by big fat mud tyres.
None of them will take me up a hill faster than a fitter rider, but they can affect my own journey times, and money can buy weight reduction which can help the power to weight (though not admittedly as much as training can!)

Posted 11 years ago #
allebong
Member

If it's not about the bike I'd love to see someone do a road race on a 10" travel downhill bike with supertacky tyres...would be quite a spectacle!

Posted 11 years ago #
Instography
Member

Of course. I just mean that in the grand scheme of things, the differences that can be made by switching between any of my bikes is pretty marginal. I had the curious experience last week of riding my new, more upright, commuter bike into work and it felt sloooooooow. Very nice and relaxing once I'd settled into it but I thought the ride had taken ages. Turned out, over the 17 miles, it had only taken an extra 10 minutes. I was using slightly different muscles from usual.

The bike and its geometry matter but only a little bit and maybe not another bike's worth. I mean if the other guys are fast but aren't willing to slow down to ride with their mate, they're not really worth riding with anyway. Two Tired says he loves his bike but is looking for a mile-eating machine. He's the mile-eating machine but he might need a bit of practice to be the kind of guzzler he hankers after.

Posted 11 years ago #
allebong
Member

Yes my tongue may have been towards the cheek region of my mouth there....

Considering I started commuting on a knobby tired battered mtb and am now doing the full clipped in/drop bars thing I have a pretty decent perspective on what really made the difference. Number one, first and foremost, is slick tires inflated to the right pressure. Nothing else, not even SPDs, comes close to the difference that made.

I frequently head uptown via the canal from Slateford and through the meadows. I sometimes do this on the same battered mtb with slicks and feel as if I'm really slow compared to the tourer with SPDs and a much better frame/drivetrain. But as you say, if you actually time it the differences over say 5 miles come down to maybe 5 minutes tops. Now from there it get's exponentially worse for the mtb and I wouldn't fancy doing a 50 mile country road adventure on it. The real difference is really comfort rather than speed though. I can still sprint at 25mph on that mtb if I feel like it.

Posted 11 years ago #
Two Tired
Member

Thanks for all the replies! For the record I am looking at purchasing a second bike to compliment my current one which I wouldn't change a single bit of. As Remberbuck says it does exactly what I need from it (and has bar ends by the way). When I got it I has previously only owned a mountain bike and felt it was too large a step for me to go straight to dropped bars and SPDs; especially since most of my cycling has been commuting to work/play and for this I preferred the upright position and freedom of footwear choice.

Recently however I have indeed been hankering to be a mile-eating machine (albeit a female one). And, having slogged my guts out through numerous spin classes where I set the bike up in a less upright position I have been searching for that more extended/leant over position on my flat bars. I even tried leaning with my elbows on the bar as a substitute which was about as successful as my attempts to pogo stick with no hands as a child.

Anyway, while I accept that I'm the real (potential) mile eating machine I wanted to get a feel for whether those who had proper road bikes felt there was an appreciable difference. Seems whatever I do my next bike will have SPDs and drop bars, I guess I just don't want to end up on the situation where I have two similarly performing bikes. And there is a lot to be said for how you feel when on a bike and the effect of this on your ride. Maybe even some placebo effects coming in too. Sit on a mile eating machine, feel like a mile eating machine :-)

Posted 11 years ago #
Instography
Member

Oops.

Posted 11 years ago #
stiltskin
Member

Turned out, over the 17 miles, it had only taken an extra 10 minutes.

Yes, but now try and do it on the same bike, but this time do it 10 minutes faster. I guarantee that it will be really difficult, and that represents the difference between using a hybrid and a racing bike. Clearly the difference between a fit and unfit rider may well be greater but in terms of an overnight performance upgrade a racing bike is going to be significantly faster and easier to ride over distance compared to (even) a speedy hybrid like a Sirrus

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Oops."

Don't worry, that's the (slightly entertaining) consequence of anonymous usernames!

You've 'outed' someone who didn't post here -

http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10254

Posted 11 years ago #
Two Tired
Member

I did post here though :-)

http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10291

Don't worry it's one of those things I sometimes feel pedantic for correcting. But when it's emboldened I don't think I can let it slide! :-)

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Oops, oops!

Posted 11 years ago #
Smudge
Member

@Two Tyred, "freedom of footwear choice" is why both my tourer and my road/audax bike both have half flat half spd pedals fitted. Also I prefer the MTB type SPD shoes when I am using clips.
Having my cake and eating it ;-)

Posted 11 years ago #
Baldcyclist
Member

I remember years ago when I was young and stupid, and the Judge took my license away (he did, best thing that ever happened in some respects, maybe a story for another day).

I bought a Kona mountain bike, and cycled that into Edinburgh (from Livingston) for about a year, I wore the knobbly tires bald. I then bought a dropped bar *Raleigh road bike, and never looked back, it took 15 minutes off my time into Edinburgh overnight (debatable though whether that would still be the case now in fairness).

The one thing I do remember when collecting that bike from MacDonald cycles was the advice I was given...

"You used to riding a 'road' bike?'
"Nah, been riding a MTB for a while".
"How far are you going?"
"Livingston."
"You might wan't to get the train home then, the narrower bars will take a bit of getting used to if your used to wide bars".
"Nah, it'll be fine, cheers, see you later"

Wobble, slam (stuck in toe clips), bike scratched in less than 10 yards! Walk to Haymarket...

*One of these, beautiful isn't it, wish I still had mine:

Posted 11 years ago #
Two Tired
Member

"freedom of footwear choice" is why both my tourer and my road/audax bike both have half flat half spd pedals fitted.

Awesome, this hadnt even crossed my mind.

I think I have attached the image of our route below...was a really fun ride but all the predictions mentioned here came true. I couldnt keep up on the hills (new legs time me thinks) and had to peddle hard to not be left behind on the decents either!

I have since spent an unhealthy amount of time looking at new bikes. I just cant bring myself to purchase an alloy road bike - even though i know it would be faster than my current it is just too similar in my mind to justify the price.

Carbon quite frankly scares me, especially the combination of getting used to drp bars and SPDs at the same time. And for my fashion tastes they always seem too 'bling'. If I ever wear bike clothes its a pair of very baggy mountain bike shorts. I would probably look like I had knicked it and get stopped by the police.And I grow a little panicky at the thought of purchasing a bike I cannot strap panniers or mudguards to.

Then comes titanium! Specifically the VN Yukon. I am in love. I also really like the idea of buying a 'lifetime' frame that I can add too as I wish over the years, is supposed to be fast enough to, well, go fast whilst being comfortable enough for long rides. And the paint-free finish is just lovely too. Only problem is the price! Think I shall be quietly admiring from afar for a long time.

A quick search shows that various CCE members have titanium bikes, how do you all find them? Im going to test ride a VN Apex this week but Im interested in hearing what you all think of them.

Route

Posted 11 years ago #
DaveC
Member

A few YN owners I know have had problems with frames cracking, but I admit its always the negative press which you hear most of. I'm sure there are plenty of owners who have had many years of trouble free Ti framed rides.

I quite like the look of the Genesis 853 framed bike, but when I was buynig a couple of months ago, they were not on sale. I have a Dolan which I like ad it takes mudguards. If I had the choice again I'd probably get a carbon again, but I do like steel and the Reynolds 853 looks lovely.

I'd do as Blueth says and try and borrow one for a week or so. There should be someone on here who can lend you a bike to try. Or try buying a cheeper second hand racer type to see how you get on with the new ride position.

Here is a blog by someone who had a cracked VN frame and bought a Lynskey instead, with a review it of.

http://www.twoberries.com/

Posted 11 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

Although I'm one of the "various" above, I can't say I deliberately went out for a particular frame material.

The Pino was an impulse purchase (rode it, hired it, loved it, bought it) - we weren't in the market for a tandem, a semi-recumbent, a Ti frame or a bike of that value...

The Brompton was purely for weight reasons - a folding bike gets carried more than any other, so I wanted it as light as possible (given the desire for gears, lights, etc!).

Robert

Posted 11 years ago #

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Bike upgrade - drop bars, clips. Any real advantage over current bike?

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