A couple of years ago a lady who usually parks near where I tend to park and who works on the same floor said "well, I think you ought to wear a helmet" after raising the topic of having regularly seen me not wearing one. Saw her riding into the car park this morning without one.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
THE Helmet Thread
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Posted 8 years ago #
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Number 4 son got into a helmet discussion in school. The school sent a note suggesting that we talk to him about the the importance of helmets.
I didn't.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@wfb - maybe you should. There's a whole conversation to have about how to find and weigh evidence, the difference between perceived and actual risk and the impact of risk compensation on human behaviour.
You'll note that none of that conversation presupposes that at the end of it you tell him to wear a helmet...
Posted 8 years ago # -
I did that years ago.
The school his brothers went to told them off for me not wearing one when I went to pick them up.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I tend to avoid this thread - personal choice and all that.
This appeared on Twitter-
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@S_McCon: Interesting perspective from @ian_Dunn - Don't wear a helmet because it puts others off cycling. https://t.co/SCerGtB5Fq @CyclingEdin
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
The solution to Ian Dunn's dilemma might be to go helmetless in town, and helmet up for country rides. This is what I do, anyhow.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The problem with that article is that there is absolutely no way of telling if people think cycling is dangerous because of helmets, or whether they think that because cycling is dangerous they wear a helmet. There is no evidence that people perceive driving to be more dangerous whenever a new safety aid is added to the spec of a car.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
Although they disagree on the safety that helmets provide, Swart, Kiker and Te Brömmelstroet all agree on one thing: it’s not helmets that make cycling truly safe, but the amount of cyclists on the road. “In all American cities where bike riding has gone up, crashes have come down,” says Kiker.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cheshire Police on Facebook:
"It's concerning to see this morning the amount of young teenagers riding their bikes to school, with no helmet, or reflective equipment.
We, as part of the emergency services, see how a cycle helmet can save lives and reduce the physical appearance in the unlikely event of an accident.A cycle helmet may not be the most glamorous but it's a temporary measure.
Appearance after an accident can be life changing.Please promote your children to wear helmets, they are reasonably priced considering how they can help keep you alive/safe. DH #bikesafe"
Posted 8 years ago # -
Really, by that logic the police and ambulance service and by extension the NHS ought to be the main advocates for safe segregated cycling.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Anecdote time...
After my recent pothole accident which involved no cars, and was no where near a main road, or even a minor road, and was on a designated 'safe' cycling route...
Firstly I will say categorically that I do agree that helmets will not save you from major injury or worse, but those 'minor' injuries sure can be a pain in the *rs*!
I have a couple of those 'minor' injuries on my knee and elbow which will, certainly in my elbow's case result in my being scarred for life, and after 3 weeks I'm still all bandaged up and missing skin from those 'minor' injuries. I'll likely be bandaged up for another 3 weeks too.
After getting up from my accident after hydroplaning and simultaneously scraping myself along the tarmac for 5 meters my helmet has a lovely deep scrape along the front left side of it.
I'll reiterate that I'm not claiming that my helmet saved me from death or such like, it simply didn't. But I have no doubt that it did save me from another one of those, you know 'minor' injuries happening on my forehead or face resulting in the same loss of skin and life long scarring as I will have on my elbow, and very possibly my knee too...
Minor injuries....
Posted 8 years ago # -
I don't think there's any doubt on that at all. When I fell a couple of years ago and cracked my head open I'm pretty sure a helmet would have stopped me needing staples. There's the alternative argument that it may have caused neck injuries, but I'm not going to go back to find out.
Similarly the scrape on your helmet might have been because the helmet is a bit wider than your head, and your head might not have contacted the ground. But it also might have contacted the ground. So yeah, minor injuries, absolutely, I'm also pretty sure a helmet will help - and if it was just that then people would also be calling for mandatory gloves, knee pads, elbow pads. But they're not, because, like the Cheshire police, there's a theory that they save your life. Which in itself would be easier to accept if they also said, well x number of people die of head injuries in cars every year so let's make drivers wear helmets, but they don't.
It's all a minefield of competing fact, anecdote, double standards etc etc etc.
Which is pretty much why I'm still pro-choice, will not chastise anyone for wearing a helmet, will not chastise anyone for not wearing a helmet, no matter what each other's reasons are. The minute either start preaching that the other is wrong I'll switch off.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'd love to not have to wear a helmet. My head is unnaturally huge and donning a lid makes matters worse. After seeing my wife smack her face off the ground after an accident, I'm still nervous about not wearing on. I'd rather not, but as the article above states, it'll be the day I don't wear one when a car knocks me down.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Minor injuries persuade me to wear one. Touch wood, I haven't had a coming together with a vehicle but I have fallen off hit my helmet on overhanging branches several times and cracked it on the overhead bar on a bike shed. Each time I was glad I was wearing it.
Other people's decisions on whether they wear one are none of my business.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've cracked my helmet on door frames and low beams. Had I not been wearing the helmet I would have passed underneath them without a problem.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Following a car driving into me in April I was glad I had my helmet on as I strongly suspect I may have had a serious head injury due to coming off my bike.
If asked I would always recommend wearing one although of course there would be almost no need for one if people could look and drive properly and the roads were not so crap.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Baldcyclist, serious question, do you wish you had, and/or do you plan to wear more padding when cycling, e.g. knee and elbow pads as skateboarders sometimes do?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Some comments here have me perplexed.
@nevelbell said " it'll be the day I don't wear one when a car knocks me down." and @wishicouldgofaster said " people could look and drive properly"
I wear a sometimes wear a helmet to protect myself if the chances of an off are greater, such as wet roads, thin tyres & high speeds. Mostly I am not on my road bike so don't wear one. If I get hit by a vehicle then what is on my head will largely become irrelevant.
I genuinely want to know why you think that a piece of plastic and polystyrene (which is designed to withstand the forces of a fall from 2 m height) will protect you in the event of being hit by a vehicle?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@paulmilne Not at all, and no, it's fair to say that pain is pain wherever it is.
However having permanent scarring on your limbs is one thing, having that scarring on your forehead or face is quite another. - I'd rather not have the injuries or scarring at all, but I definately don't want them on my head / face for all the world to see.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'd agree with that - I've a bit surgical scar down my right elbow, 6 inches long or so. I don't think about it, don't worry about wearing short sleeves, but if it was down my face I suspect I'd feel differently about it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I genuinely want to know why you think that a piece of plastic and polystyrene (which is designed to withstand the forces of a fall from 2 m height) will protect you in the event of being hit by a vehicle?
Freeze the frame with the cyclist upside down and vertical. Would you prefer to
I can think of any number of accident scenarios where you might be hit by a car but your head only comes into contact with the ground. No one ( with any sense) believes a helmet will protect your skull from a high energy impact. However , not all motor vehicle impacts will result in car hitting skull.
As an example (admittedly it's a motorbike) but how about this one.
have a helmet on at this point? Or not.
I would add I am reasonably agnostic about helmets but I think you can understate the times when it may help to have one on.Posted 8 years ago # -
condor - I am not making any claim that a helmet will protect you from being hit.
What I did say was I was glad I had my helmet on as I strongly suspect I may have had a serious head injury due to coming off my bike.
I would also like to add that it was nothing short of a miracle that I was not killed.
If people on the road were not such idiots I would think it extremely unlikely that I would fall of my bike. My helmet is only a small part of me being able to reduce the risk.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"....but your head only comes into contact with the ground."
I remember when I was hit by a car 3 years ago in Queensferry. SMIDSY coming out of junction, low speed sort of thing.
I also distinctly remember that the actual collision with the car didn't particularly hurt at all, again it was that scraping along the ground thing that did the damage to my buhuttocks / hip in that instance. But, seems that the "which is designed to withstand the forces of a fall from 2 m height" is the scenario in a lot of car collisions.
It's not cars that cause the damage in a lot of cases, but the coming together with the ground.
*EDIT afterthought: I seem to come a cropper on a ~3 year cycle. Broken ribs - car - pothole.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I assume the energy transfer from the car hitting you would mean that the subsequent impact with the ground is with a greater forcing than simply falling from 2m.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I assume the energy transfer from the car hitting you would mean that the subsequent impact with the ground is with a greater forcing than simply falling from 2m"
Indeed, but the direction the force is being applied is also important, that's why road rash injuries are so common. You tend to scrape, and bounce along the road rather than hit it and stop because of the forward motion the car propels you in.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I hear a chap in work came off last week when he overcooked a fast downhill corner (30mph according to strava) off the 17% section of Redstone Rigg.
I didn't hear of any head/helmet related issues (he wears one) but he smashed his shoulder badly. Off for 6 weeks.
I think sometimes it's your luck.
If he had met a car on that corner, helmet or not, would probably have had even more serious injuries.
Anyhow, personal choice for me, whenever I have done a clipless fall its hips and elbows that get skinned.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Have said it here several times the helmet debate distracts from necessity to improve infrastructure. Up to the individual to decide what they wear on their heads. My friend who broke his neck going over the handlebars split his helmet in two. Helmet did not stop him breaking his neck but medics felt would have been worse without it. Not sure how this can be proven. I do like to see cycling caps but my head is too big for their one size fits all. So I think you pays your money and you takes your chance.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"...the helmet debate distracts from necessity to improve infrastructure"
Which is true, but equally a shame. They should be different conversations.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@baldycyclist, true but the conspiracy theorist in me says the helmet debate is raised by petrochemical / car industry to deflect from the need for better infrastructure. Then we fall into their trap by engaging in that debate rather than just responding - better infrastructure please
The conspiracy theorist in me is not always there, just sometimes
Posted 8 years ago # -
The conspiracy theorist in me is not always there, just sometimes
Wrong kind of hat. You need tinfoil for that, not polystyrene.
It seems I'll be gracing the capital by train today so I'll probably be wearing a wool felt pork pie. Black of course.
Posted 8 years ago #
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