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THE Helmet Thread

(895 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from gembo

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  1. gembo
    Member

    The first article from 2014 starts strongly. Riskier to get head injuries in a car. Teenage drivers should wear helmets. This is seen as prepsoterous.

    Weaker on helmets cause injuries. As Ian Walker gave up on wigs etc and went with nothing works build infra. And neck injuriy research IIRC is the old leather Sean Connery helmets?

    Not sure why it is out and about? Published 2014 and citing 1978 research.

    The second article not really about Helmets but about The Tragedy of the Commons.

    Both were good reads. Thanks @fimm

    Posted 3 years ago #

  2. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Oh, this thread popping up a good reminder to go an buy a lid before going back to office in Oct.

    Cracked my last one in two falling off a skateboard.

    (not making any points)

    Posted 3 years ago #

  3. mcairney
    Member

    I’ve been saved from severe injury by a helmet in the past (though that did involve coming off on loose gravel flying down Maidens Cleugh on a MTB and a Boulder to helmet collision). And I probably do wear one more often than not but I’d quite like to not be compelled to wear one even fir a trip to the shops

    Posted 3 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    “did involve coming off on loose gravel flying down Maidens Cleugh on a MTB and a Boulder to helmet collision“

    Few people would suggest that such helmet use was inappropriate.

    There is an argument that helmets encourage (some) people to be more bold/reckless.

    Similar arguments have been used about seatbelts…

    Posted 3 years ago #

  5. Greenroofer
    Member

    I had a thought about pedestrian head injuries quoted. I wonder how many of these arise when someone faints or collapses and falls backwards without breaking their fall, hitting the back of their skull on the ground. Falls like this are what cause the tragic one-punch kills outside pubs.

    Falls off a bike will usually have a forward or sideways component, so perhaps less likely to have the head strike the ground directly.

    Just goes to show how complicated this question is.

    The answer, though, is safe infrastructure.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    https://road.cc/content/news/scottish-active-travel-minister-slated-no-helmet-286177

    Posted 3 years ago #

  7. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    https://twitter.com/EdinPolNE/status/1600800954214977537

    "4 cyclists stopped and spoken in regards to various matters including lack of lights and protective headwear

    6 roadside breath tests conducted - all negative result"

    Posted 2 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    https://news.sky.com/video/ed-davey-arrives-at-lib-dem-conference-by-bike-to-fire-starting-gun-on-general-election-12968058

    Posted 1 year ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/the-big-bike-helmet-debate-readers-reject-change-in-law/

    Posted 1 year ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    “

    I’m often asked about/criticised over posting pics on my upright bike without wearing a helmet. This piece explains why it’s a much more nuanced debate than most people take the time for. If you’re interested, please do read in full. Thanks
    @rouleur for the space to explore.

    “

    https://x.com/SportsOrla/status/1722883794124845282

    BIGGER

    Mostly reasonable DM piece

    “

    The broadcaster encouraged people not to respond to posts on her social media accounts with negative responses but asked people instead to lobby their local MPs for better cycling safety initiatives.

    The UK Government's stance remains that it encourages helmet wearing but hasn't introduced legislation to make it illegal to not wear one - despite multiple attempts in recent years by politicians to change the law.

    “

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12734403/amp/Eurosport-presenter-Orla-Chennaoui-sparks-backlash-cycling-without-helmet-including-16mph-e-bike-claiming-SAFER-not-wear-one-makes-drivers-careful.html

    Posted 1 year ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    “

    "I had cyclists telling me I was a disgrace for saying my helmet saved my life": Dan Walker recalls helmet backlash after being knocked off bike by driver

    “

    https://road.cc/content/news/dan-walker-recalls-helmet-backlash-after-driver-hit-him-306887

    Posted 10 months ago #

  12. neddie
    Member

    I see we now have celebrity chefs thinking they’re medical experts. Or even thinking they understand the health impacts at societal level of “wEar A hElmeT”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1002z9vne3o

    No indication as to whether a driver was involved

    Posted 6 months ago #

  13. acsimpson
    Member

    The message is addressed to all dad's. Vital protection against little ones tantrums. Nothing hurts more than a bare headed rattle battle

    Posted 6 months ago #

  14. Greenroofer
    Member

    This one interesting
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/16/the-brain-is-very-vulnerable-dutch-cyclists-urged-to-wear-helmets-as-road-deaths-rise

    I'm sure I've heard before from the Netherlands that older cyclists on e-bikes are proving to a be a high-risk group...

    Posted 6 months ago #

  15. neddie
    Member

    And Myrthe Boss‘s qualifications to speak on helmet use are what exactly? - that her mother was killed by a driver? (Note that the article doesn’t mention a driver, only a “car”)

    Posted 6 months ago #

  16. gembo
    Member

    Helmets effective under 12.5mph

    E-bikes go at 15.5 mph

    Though I imagine Dutch cars go faster. And in Kilometers,

    Posted 6 months ago #

  17. neddie
    Member

    I wonder how many additional years of life are gained, and how many additional “good quality health” years are gained, by those e-bike-riding elderly people? The same elderly people that wouldn’t bother/be able to ride were it not for e-bikes? Then factor in how many would be put off by the need (social or otherwise) to don a helmet…

    FFS, drivers ruin everything

    Posted 6 months ago #

  18. Greenroofer
    Member

    I'd suggest that in this case it's not drivers ruining everything.

    It's easy to imagine scenarios where the increasing incidence of injuries to older riders is to do with the access to higher speeds/heavier bikes than they could manage unassisted, and therefore that the incidents that cause injury may well not involve another vehicle. The injuries may be be simple falls from a bicycle.

    So in this case helmets could be serving the purpose for which they are designed and tested (stationary fall from head height). I'd therefore say that the reasons in favour of wearing one for this group are a bit stronger than for younger adults. Whether there is a societal benefit from encouraging older riders to wear them is a different question.

    Posted 6 months ago #

  19. gembo
    Member

    How old do you need to be before you. Become an older rider?

    Asking for a friend.

    Older drivers are certainly statistically poorer drivers hence the need in previous times for reapplying for their licence.

    We also shopped my father in law a kind and generous man to the DVLA as his poor driving aged 85 made him a menace to society.

    So maybe very old dutchies are at risk or maybe this is marketing? I shall ask a big Dutch Wookie I know when I see him up Scotmid.

    Posted 6 months ago #

  20. neddie
    Member

    Older drivers are certainly statistically poorer drivers

    Pretty sure this isn't true, at least statistically, although there may be a spike in crashes for very old people i.e. 90+

    Older drivers may have poorer eyesight, slower reactions, etc, but risk-compensation comes into play. They know their limits and drive slower and/or more carefully and/or avoid nighttime / avoid difficult junctions, etc to compensate. Also many have "self-retired" from driving, so the crashes you do see are the result of the hardy few that insist on continuing to drive.

    It's young drivers that present by far the greatest risk per mile and that risk steadily decreases with age, even into the 70s and 80s

    There is a nice graph that demostrates this somewhere...

    Posted 6 months ago #

  21. neddie
    Member

    I'm willing to bet if you follow the money trail through the NGO / "grassroots" organisations presented in the article, you'll find it leads back to the automotive / fossil fuel industry.

    Because they aren't grassroots at all, they are astroturf organisations, no doubt funded by dubious sources.

    The reason for this is the motor industry have worked out that if they can crack* helmet wearing in the Netherlands, it will soon become mandatory worldwide. And that will lead to fewer people cycling and fewer "obstacles**" in the way of cars

    *Pun intended
    **Except that they are their own self-defeating obstacles!

    Posted 6 months ago #

  22. Frenchy
    Member

    A graph of rate of KSI casualties per billion miles by gender and age group of car drivers is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-younger-driver-factsheet-2022

    Risk goes down with age until about 40 years old, then is flat for a while before increasing again from about age 70.

    Posted 6 months ago #

  23. gembo
    Member

    Thanks @frenchy I thought my anecdata was correct in terms of over 70s

    Posted 6 months ago #

  24. neddie
    Member

    Wow. I did not expect that. I stand corrected.

    Perhaps the graph I saw was not corrected for miles-driven, giving overall lower figures for older people, as they drive less?

    I'd be interested to see the same graph for absolute casualties versus age and also casualities corrected per journey

    I'm now going to have a chat with my mother...

    (my father stopped driving decades ago, mainly because he could see the harm that it caused)

    Posted 6 months ago #

  25. gembo
    Member

    Interesting also that older women in more accidents as Women are way better drivers at youngest age range and about same at other ages.

    But basically upside down bell curve for both populations.

    Posted 6 months ago #

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