CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

EastCoast new rolling stock

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "London to Stirling via Cumbernauld or as with WSMR London to Stirling via Edinburgh but not stopping at Edinburgh Waverley might be the sort of options."

    Which raises all sorts of interesting questions.

    The first is whether the rules could/should be changed to avoid the need for 'artificial' routes?

    Are there a whole set of new cross country routes that should have direct services (or perhaps faster/more frequent ones - probably by stopping at fewer stations)?

    Is there too much concentration on 'destination London'?

    Would independence mean more or fewer trips to London?

    With or without independence should there be more/better links with the north of England - or even the north of Scotland?

    Then there's the question of encouraging (or not) more travel!

    But this is 'transport' - can't expect it to be too rational.

    Perhaps a greatly upgraded rail line to Inverness would be better than dualling the A9(?)

    If there is any case for High Speed Rail, perhaps the first route should be (say) Salford to Stirling!?

    Currently there is no shortage of transport developments in/around/to London.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. PS
    Member

    Is there too much concentration on 'destination London'?

    Unfortunately that's how the railways are designed. It's astonishing how awkward it is to get from Edinburgh to Manchester by train.

    @Tulyar The mess of divvying up fares to train operators should go away once we finally get smart ticketing (national Oyster card-style), which will make it clear which passenger used which operator. Not holding my breath for that, though.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. fimm
    Member

    http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/cycling-to-stations-doubles-in-7-years

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. crowriver
    Member

    East Coast train manufacturer finaly confirmed. So that's why they went for Hitachi rolling stock...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27050719

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "19% more seats on each train"

    So perhaps not a lot of luggage/bike space(?)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. acsimpson
    Member

    "19% more seats on each train"

    So perhaps not a lot of luggage/bike space(?)

    More optimisticly perhaps they are longer or have a smaller first class.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "More optimisticly perhaps they are longer"

    Not sure how much scope there is for that due to platform length.

    "or have a smaller first class."

    Possibly get away with one fewer 1st coaches, but that wouldn't account for 19% more seats.

    So - squeeze luggage space (East Coast is already encouraging passengers to check in large items), less space per seat, fewer tables?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. DaveC
    Member

    'Check in' luggage? Do thay have baggage cars still? I know Cross Country have a small bagage section at one end of the train, as do the old Intercity diesels. I thought they were binning the baggage cars so they could install more seats?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "Do thay have baggage cars still? "

    Some sets do - lots of space for bikes - some just enough room to hang them vertical - if you can get past the luggage...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    As I said 9 months ago upthread: "Think current Virgin trains, packed to the gunnels in airline style seats with luggage piled in the bike cubbyhole, blocking aisles, etc. 'State of the art'!"

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. gembo
    Member

    Recently only ever Been on inter city with space for two bikes right at rear of train. So booking the bike on is essential.

    Years back the luggage carriage right at the front had space for maybe twelve bikes.

    Both these areas were linked to the driver compartment/back window.

    Will they run passenger seats right up to the driver's door like they do on Scotrail?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. acsimpson
    Member

    When I travelled to London for the Olympics I was told that there was only space to book 2 bikes on the train but that the guard has discretion to carry more. What this meant was that I could take my bike with me but I might not be able to bring it home.

    Needless to say I took the tube.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    No detailed plans have been publicly released of the interior as to how they will achieve the increased capacity. The mockups are not yet completed either.

    There should be more room inside given that a lot more equipment will be under the floor, rather than concentrated in trailers at the end of the trainset.

    When the Class 91 / Mark IV trains (current East Coast electrics) were built, there was a real concern about lightweight "driving trailers" being pushed from behind by a powerful locomotive and hitting an obstruction on the line and riding up and over it, resulting in a catastrophic derailment. This happened at Polmont in the mid-1980s, where a Mark II driving trailer (basically a passenger carriage with a driver's compartment at one end) hit a cow on the line and the resulting summersaulting and concertina-ing of the train caused multiple fatalities. As a result, the Board of Trade or whomever decided that new driving trailers could no longer have passenger seats in them, hence the capaciious empty interior for bikes and luggage on the Mark III and IV rolling stock.

    Anyway, long story short, the new trains have no need of driving trailers and this releases passenger space in the vehicles at either end of the consist, as you get in the Pendolino and Voyager trains and other such high speed multiple units. Of course it also means you get the noise and vibration of mechanical parts under the floor of the passenger compartment, which is why the Voyager trains sound like an old bus inside.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. crowriver
    Member

    [i][/i]the Voyager trains sound like an old bus inside.[i]

    The Voyagers are a bit noisy. Reasonably comfy, not enough luggage space, derisory bike compartment at the back IIRC.

    Folding bike the way to go from 2019 onwards methinks. For tandems, need a steel frame plus S&S couplings or a folding tandem (they exist but a bit pricey).

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. Arellcat
    Moderator

    On another cycling forum far, far away (well, maybe 393 miles as the ECML flies), there has been discussion about the new rolling stock vis-à-vis bicycles. The upshot, insofar as Kim was allowed to reveal, is dangly spaces and 'handlebar tetris'.

    https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=79449.msg1631370#msg1631370

    As a result, the Board of Trade or whomever decided that new driving trailers could no longer have passenger seats in them…

    Probably one more nail in the APT-P coffin, justified or otherwise.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. neddie
    Member

    Since some people bring bags 'the size of small* cars', there must be plenty of room for bikes. Disguise your bike as a small car.

    *I realise modern 'small' cars are no longer small

    Posted 10 years ago #

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