CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News

'Mutual respect'/NICEWAYCODE

(703 posts)

No tags yet.


  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Ros Gasson posted to Pedal on Parliament
    So on Monday we'll be getting NWC ads appearing on Taxis and billboards.

    I wonder what they'll say...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. Instography
    Member

    The taxi ones will say: Oi! Bike! Aht ma way, you slaaag!

    Yes, even the Edinburgh and Glasgow taxis will sound like they're from Sarf Landin.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "

    David Brennan (@magnatom)
    09/08/2013 22:14
    Does anyone get the feeling that #nicewaycode are working towards saying.... the controversy was part of the plan....

    "

    Perhaps, but it wouldn't be true.

    "
    We’d like to thank all of our partners and supporters for their encouragement this week. Particular thanks go to The AA, Paths for All, the Institute of Advanced Motorists, First in Glasgow, the Motorcycle Action Group (Scotland), Lothian Buses, the Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park Authority, the Scottish Taxi Federation and Scottish Cycling.

    "

    http://nicewaycode.com/2013/08/09/its-nice-to-be-nice

    Some of the original supporters seem to be missing...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. RJ
    Member

    Streuth. They are hopelessly marooned, in a galaxy far, far away from reality, on the planet Patronising.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. wingpig
    Member

    Billboards, eh? At least on a billboard "See bike, think horse" can be easily amended to "See bike: think!" with a quick slosh of paint.

    Maybe they'll surprise us all with billboards reading "No! Stop gawping at billboards and concentrate on driving" or "JUST WATCH WHAT YOU'RE DOING, DRIVERS" with a playful illustration of a tipper truck wedged half-way through a bus stop.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Iron Pugsley (@IronPugsley)
    09/08/2013 23:11
    .@nicewaycode Even our friends across the Atlantic who are very attached to their cars are making a difference.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/wp/2013/08/09/putting-a-bite-in-the-3-foot-bike-law

    "
    "
    city police department has been sending two-person teams in plainclothes out on bicycles. They ride single file up and down roads that don’t have dedicated bike lanes but intersect with popular bike routes. When a driver comes too close, they radio to a waiting patrol car, who chases the driver down to issue a warning or ticket.

    "

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I had a go at dissecting the latest press release.


    Dissection by the Magnificent Octopus, on Flickr

    A few glasses of wine may have got the better of my ability to argue coherently. But you get the idea.

    I should have finished with "and your Mum".

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    + 5 (*)

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://nicewaycode.com/2013/08/10/overtaking-for-cyclists-some-guidance/

    I wonder if they'll paste this confusing explanation of the bus adverts next to all the posters themselves?

    I've tweeted them back that the adverts aren't actually in line with the Highwaycode, but they generally ignore me.

    So the new posters (out Monday?) probably something like this;

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    Last bit from above link -

    "
    It is worth remembering that the use of cycle lanes is optional and in many circumstances, riders will be safer riding as part of the traffic.

    This leads us to our bus backs. As you will have read, on the majority of occasions, passing on the right is the best, and often safest, option. Our bus backs are in keeping with messaging already carried on a large portion of Lothian Buses’ fleet and with the Highway Code. We hope that making it clear that passing on the right when it’s safe to do so will help new and experienced cyclists be safer on the roads.

    "

    SO they don't really mean NOPE.

    "carried on a large portion of Lothian Buses’ fleet"

    How large is large? Not my impression that many buses have the 'DO NOT pass on the left' roundels.

    Lothian Buses isn't merely the 'carrier of advertising' they are 'campaign supporters'.

    As k says (above) will they be putting the complete explanation of what NOPE really means??

    Perhaps complain to Trading Standards as well as ASA - message not fit for purpose or honest.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. So they don't mean 'NOPE' and still think its safer for novice cyclists to swerve in and out of traffic?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Perhaps complain to Trading Standards as well as ASA - message not fit for purpose or honest.

    I've already done the latter. It takes 10 minutes on ASA website... Hint hint.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    Blame shifting??

    "
    A Transport Scotland spokeswoman said the wording of the ads had been decided based on focus groups run by Cycling Scotland and its creative agency, Newhaven.

    The spokeswoman said: “Key messages were also developed in partnership with an experienced cycle tutor.”

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/councillor-pans-bus-campaign-s-cycle-safety-advice-1-3040007

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    Sorry, the important bit of above story -

    "
    CITY council leader Andrew Burns has launched a scathing attack on bus ads encouraging cyclists to weave into the ­middle of traffic when overtaking buses.

    "

    EDIT


    Andrew Burns in the News

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. Instography
    Member

    They need to protect the minister.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    @I

    Of course!

    Now they will have to release the ministerial/Transport Scotland diktat/brief...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. Kim
    Member

    It would be interesting to know who the cycle tutor was, since those the cyclists at the consultation (there were a few but only few) objected to this bus ad. It was notable that most of the people who were consulted about the ad campaign were from non cycling groups.

    I was surprised and disappointed by the buy in from CTC, but it does rather tie in the vehicular cycling approach from their staff down south. CTC Scotland seem to be light years ahead of the HQ in Guildford (which is an horrendous place to be a cyclists or pedestrian).

    It is notable that Scot Gov is trying to blame the Ad agency (shooting the messenger, when the brief is the real problem) and its own quango (which was just doing its bidding), although I do think that it is reasonable to put some of the blame on Cycling Scotland for failing to champion the interests of cyclists in this whole sorry mess. They are supposed to be trying to increase cycling rates, instead they just victim blame as the casualty rate increases. Also they should have learned from the failure of the "Give me space" campaign, and known that this sort of "respect" campaign was going to fail.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It would be interesting to know who the cycle tutor was

    Franklin, no?

    its own quango

    Minor point (but quite important) is that it's not a Quango but a Charity. Falls well outside FOI therefore.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. Tulyar
    Member

    I looked at the EN responses and that of Lothian Buses. Both display a clear ignorance of the fact that there are officially provided cycle lanes for passing buses and all other traffic on the nearside. These are not found at bus stops and where their provision might encourage cyclists to move up alongside left turning buses and other traffic, all assumptions made by those responding to the EN.

    Basically the Niceway code has come up with a poster which directly contradicts the on road provision of cycle facilities by ... the Scottish Government's own guidance? #fail!

    Maybe a question make by NOPE and a picture of a cycle lane along the nearside of a bus (or a quick stick panel "Are you sure?" with picture.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. RJ
    Member

    Little point in polishing these excresences. Transport Scotland are eminently FOI-able, but given where we are in the parliamentary calendar, surely would it be too much to hope that there's an MSP or two honing some very pointed PQs?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin


    Fair enough - it's at a bus stop


    Maybe not HERE

    BUT plenty of places coming up to an ASL where I would.

    It's about judgement.

    NOPE isn't helpful (understatement).

    The real problem with this is that it WILL make (some) drivers think 'there's another cyclist breaking the law'.

    One day it might be replaced by this -

    https://twitter.com/cocteautriplets/status/366122489111257089

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. Tulyar
    Member

    Jings crivens! @chdot another couple of seconds & you would have had a picture of a bus with a cycle lane and a big arrow saying NOPE, which clearly shows what a farce the concept for that poster is.

    Prize for best picture of bus alongside a cycle lane?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    But you can see the white line.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. Kim
    Member

    @kaputnik Cycling Scotland is 100% government funded, it has no independent voice it is to all intents and purposes a Quango, that fact that these are increasingly being set up as charities (possible to make them immune to FOI requests), doesn't change their relationship to Government. They do their master bidding.

    Sustrans which is 90% government funded will not do or say anything which might upset Government, and I have that from one of the directors.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    "

    You’ll notice that the arrow is indistinguishable from the style used on The Highway Code to denote keeping left, whilst the circle and diagonal is one of the styles used to denote prohibition (the diagonal is redundant).

    Note that these are signs giving orders. They are mandatory.

    By internationally established visual language convention, this sign says “you must not keep left of this bus”.

    This is not the case. Overtaking to the nearside on a normal road is perfectly legal. It is advised against in many scenarios, but it is legal.

    "

    http://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2013/08/10/the-back-end-of-a-bus

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. Tulyar
    Member

    As noted on Beyond the Kerb Blog the bus back panel contradicts Rule 63 of the Highway Code, and contradicts the provision of cycle lanes, and now it emerges that in the consultation several consultees pointed out this major flaw in the campaign material - and were ignored.

    We can only wait to see what other crass material is in the pipeline.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. Tulyar
    Member

    I've not got time to dissect the detail but I'm wondering what the position is about displaying a road sign on a moving vehicle in such a way that it could be read by a road user on wheels in or on a following vehicle and misinterpreted as a fixed road sign. TSRGD (the road signs manual) is generally quite strict, especially regarding signs which are mandatory for prohibition or ordering road behaviour (roundel with a red border), and I think there are only a limited number of signs that can be put on moving vehicles, generally those use for moving road works. Mandatory signs also require a TRO and I'm wondering how that might apply to a sign which could be confused with a fixed road sign, moving along on the back of a bus....

    If there is a contravention do the bus operators catch it or the agents who came up with the design?

    Niceway Code Blog for 10/8 makes some excuses for the bus back panel and concludes by claiming it aligns with the Highway Code (but clearly not Rule 63, or provision of cycle lanes), and the Niceway detail follows through from Lothian Buses cycle safety material, which had 4 posters that were far better thought through, with the messages they conveyed.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Introducing a new law for the Internet

    Hembrow's Law: whoever citesFranklin in a debate about cyclingloses.

    "

    http://cyclingfront.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/nicewaycode-wake-up-time-to-die.html

    Contains rude words and a rude reference to Leith Walk!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. Instography
    Member

    Weren't we due some new insults today?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    Maybe they are inside the taxis??

    Posted 6 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin