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'Mutual respect'/NICEWAYCODE

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  1. Instography
    Member

    The drivers? Their insults aren't new.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

  3. Instography
    Member

    The spots storyline is based on the insight 'if we all slow down and give certain road users space, we should do the same for everyone.' The Newhaven team together with Glasgow's MTP Production present a comparative narrative showcasing the treatment of horses, with how motorists should perhaps consider cyclists.

    They call that an insight? And an emphatic call to action with that "... how motorists should perhaps ..."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. slowcoach
    Member

    "the bus back panel contradicts Rule 63 of the Highway Code" "63 Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway. Keep within the lane when practicable. ..."
    and 163 "Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should... stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left. ..."

    "... the style used on The Highway Code to denote keeping left, whilst the circle and diagonal is one of the styles used to denote prohibition (the diagonal is redundant)...." "By internationally established visual language convention, this sign says “you must not keep left of this bus”."

    The arrows on the NWC are not "Keep left"/Keep right" which point at 45 degrees down to the left/right: they are more like "turn left"/"turn right" which are horizontal.

    Red diagonals are used with black lines for no left turn/no right turn/no U-turn. But red diagonals are also used to mean end of restriction or authorisation eg end of permitted footway parking, end of minimum speed limit, end of home zone, and end of motorway.

    "...admittedly grey rather than black ..." (from Beyond the kerb) - greyed-out signs are used for end of restriction for goods vehicles and end of 20mph zone.
    So maybe the niceway pretend signs are saying this is the end of a requirement to turn left/right?

    All of which helps show why traffic signs are meant to comply with regulations (including getting special authorisation for non-standard signs) to avoid being confusing. And why only certain authorities (including AA, RAC, and CTC?) have right to erect road signs?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. KarenJS
    Member

    Am dreading to see what they come up with next, or do you think they might have retreated to a back room to regroup and hastily photoshop the next lot of stupid ads??

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. Instography
    Member

    Very quiet for a day in which new materials were supposed to be launched.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. fimm
    Member

    I'm fully expecting there to be a competition for the first person to photograph a taxi with a "Do not stop in the ASL" advert on the back, the driver of which has stopped in the ASL...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. sallyhinch
    Member

    There has been some discussion via email of an open letter (to newspapers, government and MSPs) about this - text below. If you'd like to be a signatory, please let me know. (You can of course always write to the government and your MSP in your own words). The aim is to keep it as focused on the core issue and as positive as possible. If you want to be added in please PM me your real name

    The Nice Way Code is failing in its own terms

    At the launch of the Nice Way Code, Transport Minister Keith Brown said, "The Nice Way Code campaign seeks to build a culture of tolerance and patience between cyclists, motorists, pedestrians and all other road users across Scotland." However, everything that has come out of this campaign - which was paid for out of the active travel budget - seems designed instead to create conflict, reinforcing divisions between people based merely on their mode of transport. One advert encourages cyclists not to run red lights simply in order not to give other cyclists a bad name (and not because it's dangerous and discourteous, not least to pedestrians) - lumping all cyclists together and implying bad behaviour by a tiny minority justifies hostility to everyone who chooses to ride a bike.

    As cyclists we are used to hearing from a few uninformed drivers that 'all' cyclists run red lights, ride on the pavement, hold up traffic and generally deserve to be treated like obstacles on the road. But we never expected our own government to run adverts saying the same thing. As nine cyclists have died on Scotland's roads already this year, it's unsurprising that this campaign has angered almost everyone who regularly rides a bike.

    Safer roads will not come from lecturing people and pandering to stereotypes. We believe they will come from rethinking our current emphasis on designing roads purely for motor traffic and redesigning them to remove the sort of conflicts these adverts reflect. Pending that, it's clear that many people who don't ride bikes themselves are unaware of the needs of cyclists on the road. A campaign that really aimed to build a culture of patience and tolerance could have helped to educate them about these things, and to get cyclists, drivers and pedestrians to see things from each others' point of view. Calling cyclists names is not it.

    We urge the Scottish government to recognise that it has made a mistake and to pull this campaign before it ramps up tensions on the road even further. We suggest further that it take this opportunity to start a real dialogue between road users about how we can recognise that we are all people, and behave accordingly.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. bax
    Member

    @sally you want names only, or names and postcodes?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. sallyhinch
    Member

    Um, probably postcodes for MSPs although you'll have to send to the MSPs yourself. Someone's also suggested adding whether you're a CTC member or Sustrans supporter, given these two organisations' support for the NWC to try and put pressure on them as well.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. RJ
    Member

    It's all gone, err, quiet over there ( http://www.nicewaycode.com). Anyone spotted one of the promised hoardings or taxi posters yet?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    http://road.cc/content/news/90125-edinburgh-council-leader-nice-way-code-blasts-bus-ads

    So far no comments in favour of the NWC, which, given the road cycling 'bias' of the site, is encouraging.

    There have been a few posts on Twitter saying 'I don't know what all the fuss is about' - but writers seem to be (warning, prejudicial word) roadies.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "It's all gone, err, quiet over there (nicewaycode.com)"

    Pretty quiet on Twitter too -

    A couple of tweets of images from Code asking drivers to be aware of pedestrians and cyclists.

    Previously only two all day -

    First a retweet of this -

    "

    WWF Panda Peloton (@WWFPandaPeloton)
    12/08/2013 09:19
    Watch bit.ly/16BO2QR and see why @nicewaycode’s idea of treating a cyclist like a horse is a good thing!

    "

    Then a reply -

    "

    Nice Way Code (@nicewaycode)
    12/08/2013 11:23
    @WWFPandaPeloton Thanks for the tweet, guys. How's things over in NZ?

    "

    No positive remarks over the weekend?

    Only problem is http://www.wwf.org.za isn't in NZ!!!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. LaidBack
    Member

    ZA is South Africa?

    I saw a taxi with a 'Let's all get along' - with handshake graphic and NWC logo. One hand having cut down mits of the type some cyclists wear.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "One hand having cut down mits of the type some cyclists wear"

    Yep, that's on the cover of the booklet -

    When I say "the", I mean THOUSANDS of.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

  17. magnatom
    Member

    I've seen one of the posters. You can read about it here. http://www.magnatom.net/2013/08/ironic-but-nice.html

    Very well placed.....

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. LaidBack
    Member

    The Drum. You've got to laugh at adland.... mutual appreciation abounds....

    What a superb idea: treat cyclists as you treat horses on the road. It's simple and clear - we all know that you slow down and give horses a wide berth, so do the same to people on bikes. This lovely piece shows people being cared for just like our four-legged friends to emphasise the point. Only... why, in the name of safety, doesn't the woman at the end wear a helmet?
    Read more at http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/08/09/ad-day-cycling-scotland-horse

    Why oh why isn't the horse in the graphic wearing a helmet?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Paul Baker (@LastUphill)
    12/08/2013 21:32
    @nicewaycode Where are all the adverts about the motorists who's bad driving gives those who are 'nice' a bad name?? #doublestandards

    "

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Markus Stitz (@reizkultur)
    12/08/2013 21:43
    @nicewaycode is the worst spend of public money I've seen in ages. Wonder why some #cyclists use footpaths? because it's nice to stay alive!

    "

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. Tulyar
    Member

    Have you clicked the link back on The Drum http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/02/11/cycling-scotland-announces-newhaven-appointment

    Cycling Scotland has selected Newhaven following a strategic and creative pitch, with a campaign set to launch later this year.

    Speaking of the appointment, Cycling Scotland chief executive Ian Aitken said: “The Cycling Scotland team are thrilled to be working with Newhaven. Their pitch was bursting with ideas so we’re looking forward to seeing those develop into a campaign that we hope will make the roads a more harmonious place for drivers and cyclists alike.”

    Ken Dixon, Newhaven partner, added: “We’re delighted to be working with Cycling Scotland at such an exciting time. From the country roads to city streets’ cycling is playing an increasing role in how we get around, keep healthy and fuel the economy into the bargain.” “We can’t wait to start working with the team at Cycling Scotland to create stuff that people will talk about, and can help bring an end to the ‘them and us’ culture that sometimes prevails on Scotland’s roads.”

    “We can’t wait to start working with the team at Cycling Scotland to create stuff that people will talk about"

    Pretty well spot on there!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    “We can’t wait to start working with the team at Cycling Scotland to create stuff that people will talk about"

    Yes well I'm sure that was one reason they won the pitch.

    Of course they imagined that 'everyone' would talk about it and (presumably) in more positive terms than has happened.

    Of course most of the talk is by a minority of a minority and may have drowned out (or at least intimidated) a wider discussion about 'mutual respect'.

    BUT

    Most of the talk is about the campaign.

    Of course, it's easy to snipe from the sidelines. Wasn't really aimed at 'us'. We're probably missing 'the point' because we haven't seen the full campaign unfold.

    BUT

    'We' are out there on a daily basis. Generally 80% of cyclists have driving licences, so if we see things (like the bus ads) and fear they might make things worse for 'us' - AND further discourage those still too scared to ride on roads - then 'we' should be listened to.

    The trouble is various individuals and organisations who had a preview DID say things would need to be modified.

    'We' were ignored.

    BUT

    it's not about 'us'.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. Kim
    Member

    Very few among the "key stakeholders" who were consulted on the campaign were actually representing the people who are doing the dying. Most of them where representing the status quo and the motoring lobby. It is notable that IAM is given more prominence on these so called safety campaigns than those representing cyclists or pedestrians.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. KarenJS
    Member

    Have you noticed all ads aimed at cyclists so far are negative, ie DON'T jump red lights, DON'T pass buses, DON'T cycle on pavements contrasted to positive framed request to drivers to give cyclists more space. Gives impression that cyclists are the root of the problem, drivers obey rules but given cyclists are so rare (!) need to be told how to cope with them on the roads, as if there wasn't already guidance in the Highway Code.

    Sally I've given my name to letter on Facebook.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. bax
    Member

    @chdot Of course, it's easy to snipe from the sidelines

    I beg to differ. It takes much dedication and commitment, flying in the face of relentless PR misinformation and outright bullsh*t.

    Long live the snipers

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. Arellcat
    Moderator

    We're probably missing 'the point' because we haven't seen the full campaign unfold.

    I read a bunch of cycling fora and related sites, so I'm aware of NWC. But as a road user, I must've had my eyes closed the entire time because I've not been overwhelmed with NWC advertising. I haven't seen any backs of buses with signs telling me where I should go, or hoardings telling me I should be even nicer. I haven't seen any TV adverts (admittedly possibly because I don't have a TV hardly watch TV).

    Perhaps my cycle routes tend not to take in bus routes—I have been using the velo a lot recently—and I haven't been a passenger on a bus either. There's one big hoarding I see, but it's usually an advert for Skoda or Strongbow or something and after seeing it every day for ten years I probably don't look it it much now.

    If I were an angry car driver who shouts daily at anyone not in a car (or in a car for that matter) who's IN MY WAY, and needed a lovely fluffy campaign to tell me to be nicer, a) it isn't going to make any difference, because I'm angry for all sorts of other reasons, and b) I haven't seen it anyway.

    This is where I see the fault with the NWC. It fails to address any of the externalities that lead to car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians not being 'nice'.

    The car drivers are angry about the state of the roads damaging their suspension, and frustrated about congestion that is mostly of their own making and angry about the constant invasion of their personal space by cyclists and pedestrians. Remember that a driver's personal space extends beyond the vehicle itself.

    The cyclists are half-full of adrenaline and angry about the car drivers taking out their frustrations on the loud pedal and hauling on the steering wheel, while being on the sharp end of drivers aspiring to be Lewis Hamilton while simultaneously getting the psychological boost from TV programmes showing barely legal drivers who therefore are 'other people'. The cyclists are angry with pedestrians who walk all over the cycle path like sheep. Angry with pedestrians with music jammed in their ears so they don't even hear the polite 'tring! tring!' and who then get arsey when the cyclist runs out of patience and rides past.

    The pedestrians are angry about cyclists who ride too close, too fast. I suspect most are reasonably relaxed about cycling on footpaths if it's done at walking speed with cheerful eye contact. They're angry about constant roadworks that make it hard just to get from one side of the road to the other. They're angry at car drivers who park on corners and on every stretch of suburban street, and who blaze up and down the road at eleven at night.

    Frankly, car drivers don't have a leg to stand on. They forget they have unlimited power available under their right foot. Car drivers and cyclists can always slow down. Pedestrians generally walk at top speed, which is about the same as minimum speed. If the NWC code was aimed correctly it would tell everything with wheels to slow the hell down.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. KarenJS has sort of hit on what for me, I realised last ngiht, is my crux of the problem with the campaign.

    In the main cyclists are being told not to do things that are either:

    a) not illegal, or not always illegal - so "don't cycle on the pavement" doesn't take account of shared use paths (and suggests those using such paths are big babies); while don't go up the left of buses flies in the face of the placement of cycle lanes, and is nowhere near being an absolute rule, and in many circumstances going on the right may be more dangerous (anyway, that one has been picked apart already); or

    b) something that drivers also do, but only cyclists are being asked not to do it, such as running red lights.

    Whereas drivers are being asked to either:

    a) comply with the law which is an absolute - don't speed, don't use your mobile while driving. There aren't any circumstances where either of those are actually justified in the law (unlike the shared use paths there aren't special lanes where you are allowed to speed or chat while you drive); or

    b) just to be careful, i.e. look out for cyclists at junctions. Erm. Shouldn't 'keeping your eyes open while you drive' (or indeed cycle and walk), go without saying?

    As KarenJS says this is then backed up with a 'softly, softly' approach for drivers which ties in with the 'be nice' mantra; while the cyclist approach, for items which are much more of a grey area, is the hardline DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING THIS, with a little bit of mockery and de-humanisation thrown in.

    Maybe another advert, aimed at car drivers, with the cars replaced by rhinos and elephants and dragons, and the message that THIS is what you SUV seems like to a cyclist, so try and keep it under control... Would fit in with the 'jokey' style of the Nice Way Code, but would address much more the actual concerns of cyclists and the fact that drivers are essentially in control of a large beast.

    End.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. Instography
    Member

    At the back of my mind I'm giving a little bit of space to the slim possibility that they know drivers are the real problem but they think the messages aimed at them won't get listened to until the messages aimed at cyclists have been ticked off.

    Slim but you never know. That still won't make it an a good campaign.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    @I

    I'm sure that's all true - especially the last bit.

    Problem is it won't really make much difference, AND (I believe) a REAL danger that it will make things worse.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. Instography
    Member

    Of course. Certainly if ads aimed at drivers raise as much anger and irritation as the ones aimed cyclists, while cyclists are still seen to "flout" rules that have been carelessly portrayed.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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