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'Mutual respect'/NICEWAYCODE

(705 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from Greenroofer

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  1. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I was thinking about NWC and whether it was comparable with earlier public information campaigns. There is always the risk of course of preaching to the converted, to say nothing of not designing a campaign using behavioural motivation psychology. Who, so far, has it reached apart from cyclists?

    Perhaps the aim will be at least partly fulfilled if 'everyone' just remembers the slogan and the association. Klunk klick! Go compare! Think Bike! Use the Green Cross Code! Nice!…except that one already belongs to Louis Balfour.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. sallyhinch
    Member

    Was Living Streets one of the organisations asked about it / supporting it? They're on the pedestrian side so should hopefully be as horrified as the cyclists were. I note that while cyclists and drivers are basically being asked to obey the law, pedestrians are being asked 'not to text while crossing the road' which afaik isn't actually illegal yet. I'm surprised they haven't been asked to wear hi vis, carry lights and consider a walking helmet too...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Brian Ferguson (@brianjaffa)
    01/08/2013 10:25
    Interesting to read Creative Scotland will have £97.4 million at its disposal over the next year.
    http://www.creativescotland.org.uk/sites/default/files/editor/Creative_Scotland_Annual_Plan_2013-14.pdf

    @CreativeScots

    "

    I have no problem with 'culture' getting this sort of money.

    Just thinking about all the bother CS got into when it upset its 'constituency' and two senior staff left.

    Wonder if the same will happen at another organisations with the same initials (or any of its political masters)?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    Wonder if the same will happen at another organisations with the same initials (or any of its political masters)?

    Only if a letter signed by 100 'prominent' cyclists is published in the Herald and is highly critical of the 'other' CS, and implies its head should resign...

    And only if this is then picked up by all the Scottish media and used as a metaphorical club to beat aforementioned CS over the head repeatedly.

    What are the chances of that happening?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    "What are the chances of that happening?"

    Well there are a lot of 'well known' people who ride bikes around Scotland.

    Depends how bad the ads turn out to be and whether they upset more people than just 'us extremists'...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Bonfires of the Quangos (or bonfires of the Government-bankrolled charities with vague reasons for existing) are always popular with politicians and the electorate as a whole, aren't they?

    So long as the budget was used for something more "concrete", i.e. given to Sustrans to fund paths, I'd wholeheartedly support CS being wound down. In it's current guise as a glorified ad agency it does much more harm than good by eating up funding, acting as "cyclists like this" yes-men and rubber-stamping whichever daft initiatives Transport Scotland come up with and allowing the Scottish Goverment to bang on about how much it does for cycling.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    Seems NWC is saving money by not paying anyone to deal with twitter today.

    This is from yesterday -

    "
    Nice Way Code (@nicewaycode)
    31/07/2013 13:59
    @gnomeicide Many currently cite acts that some cyclists see as minor like riding a red, to justify their inconsiderate approach to cyclists.

    "

    Actually that's quite disturbing.

    Think Police Scotland should be investigating...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. Arellcat
    Moderator

    In it's current guise as a glorified ad agency it does much more harm than good by eating up funding

    Reminds me of those bizarre yellow and black posters that arrived on our desks a while back. At first I hadn't a clue what I was meant to do with them, and when I did, I didn't want use them because they wanted provoke debate from irked car drivers. How many did CS have printed?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Parody Niceway Code (@NicewayCodeGB)
    01/08/2013 12:13
    Hello everybody! WE'RE BACK :)

    "
    https://twitter.com/nicewaycodegb/status/362893728018477057

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. i
    Member

    This seems a less patronising example of a safety campaign. What do the people think?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    Hm. CAMPAG: CAMPaign to Abolish cyclinG scotland?

    What about:

    Bikeability Scotland
    Fresh'n'lo Pedal for Scotland
    Cycling (Non-)Action Plan for Scotland

    Er.....that's it?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. crowriver
    Member

    Oh, it may be instructive to note that at Creative Scotland, heads rolled, the organisation came over all contrite, consulted widely, but essentially not that much has changed.

    There's quite a debate about the whole affair in the arts community. Personally I think that the issue was focussing on personalities/leadership/managerialism, rather than tackling the mission of the organisation itself (set by Scot Gov/Parliament) - though the latter has changed (a wee bit) as has the language used. They've appointed a new CEO and are 'moving on'.

    Is that what 'we' want? A new manager/friendlier language? Or do we want the whole thing done away with? In which case who will take on some of the organisation's functions?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "Er.....that's it?"

    You forgot the Annual Conference.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    Okay, so if anyone would like to contribute some rants considered arguments as to why Cycling Scotland should be abolished, PM me and I'll add you as a user:

    http://campagscotland.wordpress.com/

    No content yet, default theme appears to be based on a stately home/palace!

    Coming soon: http://www.campag.org.uk

    Ooh, what have I done?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "Is that what 'we' want? A new manager/friendlier language? Or do we want the whole thing done away with? In which case who will take on some of the organisation's functions?"

    Good questions.

    The basic problem is that CS is something for SG to hide behind. That's not particularly a criticism of this (SNP) Government.

    Politicians come and go. The system rolls forward run by central civil servants and the ones in places like Transport Scotland encouraged by various other established organisations and vested interests.

    'Cycling' is irrelevant.

    BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE.

    Fits in with all aspects of the SNP aims for a Smarter, Greener etc. Scotland.

    A prime candidate for "preventative action" that would save the NHS vast amounts in future years.

    A nice(r) set of towns and cities would attract the "inward investment" and "high class jobs" that politicians want.

    Etc. etc.

    As I keep saying in different contexts - 'it's not (just) about cycling'.

    It's about, mobility and safety and quality of life etc. which also affect people who don't cycle and even those who never would, however wonderful the 'infrastructure'.

    If we can't get significant improvements in Edinburgh there really is no hope.

    We live in a corner of the Western World where car ownership/use is normal/even desirable. That may be fine in a democracy if that's what most people want - if they have been offered an alternative. BUT any 'rights' of car users have to be balanced by responsibilities which, it seems, need much more enforcement and engineering to do away with more of the potentials for conflicts than any amount of advertising.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. crowriver
    Member

    http://www.facebook.com/campagscotland

    More content later. Feel free to 'Like' and comment!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. amir
    Member

    Moreover, as a tax-payer I can see that it makes financial sense to make people healthier (especially in old age http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23411975), more productive, reduce climate change, improve inward investment etc

    I hate to see the government gambling with my money by not promoting healthy lifestyles and not doing anything serious to reduce emissions.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Abolish in its current form, a glorified marketing agency, certainly.

    P.S. if I can get a chance I can certainly try and string some words together for you.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    The more the merrier! PM me with your details and I'll add you as a blog user/FB page admin.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

  21. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Transport Scotland (@transcotland)
    01/08/2013 12:50
    @roadccdave @nicewaycode apologies for delay in response, the £424k is from our Road Safety & Sustainable Transport budget

    "

    So it might not be 'cycling money' but it's fronted by a cycling organisation which is surely mistake if it's for 'all' road users.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    well we all know that the Government lump in any "active" or "sustainable" transport spending when they tot up what they're "spending on cycling". So they can't have it both ways.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. I just love the dichotomoy of Neil Greig's IMA thinking. So he says, "... research suggests that half of drivers already own a bike but only 19% of them actually use it regularly mainly due to safety concerns". So, safety concerns stop people getting on bikes, I wonder what might actually cause those safety concerns.

    But then he goes on to say, "If everyone on the roads can work together to reduce stress, give each other more room and stick to the rules then many more people will be encouraged to dig out their bikes..."

    Ah yes, it's not the obvious safety concerns of motorised vehicles going too quickly and too closely, but rather ALL road users not sticking to the rules. I've often heard people say that they would cycle, but they're worried about other cyclists and pedestrians. Muh-huh.

    Ian Findlay from Paths for All is spot on, " drivers, cyclists and walkers unite in respect and consideration for one another, getting from A to B will be safer and more enjoyable for everyone" It's just a pity that that's a utopian ideal - I really, honestly, hate to be a party pooper, but without engineering and enforcement it's a total pipe dream to think that that mutual respect is going to be achievable with just a really poorly designed website, a picture of Keith Broon looking like a grinning muppet with a big sign, and some telly ads.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. PS
    Member

    Even with, today at least, an optimistic view of human nature (I don't believe that the majority of drivers are out to kill me when I'm on my bike), I fail to see how the utopian world of mutual respect is ever going to protect the cyclist from drivers' carelessness, inattention, misjudgement, distraction and lack of spatial awareness, all of which will represent a real and present danger for as long as segregated facilities are not offered on Scotland's key urban transport arteries.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  25. minus six
    Member

    it's a total pipe dream to think that that mutual respect is going to be achievable

    The dominator culture don't want no dutch infrastructure...

    " The entire structure of the dominator culture... is based upon our alienation from nature, from ourselves and from each other "

    Posted 11 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    Comments and replies are beginning to flow!!!!

    "
    Government money is either capital or revenue – this was from revenue funding so was never going to end up building cycle paths, much as we very much support the Leith Walk project.

    "

    http://nicewaycode.com/2013/07/30/research-an-informed-approach-to-the-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-102

    Posted 11 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Debate: Transport Scotland launches ‘Nice Way Code’ – but many are criticising its limited scope

    Being nice is all very well – but surely, say opponents, we really need infrastructure and enforcement?

    "

    http://www.arnoldclark.com/newsroom/255-debate-transport-scotland-launches-the-nice-way-code-but-many-are-criticising-the-limited-scope-of-the-campaign

    Posted 11 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Thought: If this is actually funded out of a Transport Scotland active travel budget, then surely whatever proposal / business case to sign it off would be open to an FOI request?

    I'd like to know who signed off an expensive approach to road safety that seems to be unfounded on recognised best practice, ignores all official data and takes a completely novel (and likely controvertial) approach without any guarantee of any positive return on investment.

    Anyone think otherwise?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    "
    The £58m is across the current spending review, which is the figure Transport Scotland used in their quote in the press release, so that’s been referred back to a few times. You are quite right that this finanical year funding is just above £20m.

    "

    http://nicewaycode.com/2013/07/30/research-an-informed-approach-to-the-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-113

    Posted 11 years ago #
  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    awaiting moderation...

    Posted 11 years ago #

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