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'Mutual respect'/NICEWAYCODE

(705 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from Greenroofer

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  1. PS
    Member

    Are drivers allowed to treat cyclists differently if they're not 'normal', and have lycra and a helmet on?

    One of the cyclist/horses is a lycra clad chap. There's also a beardy-tweedy (but h*****ed) type, and the aforementioned lady. Who takes primary (although on a quiet road).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Instography: "Maybe effective? You're joking, right? How?"

    Since we're not the target audience perhaps we're not seeing these from the perspective of the kinds of people who, like one of my friends, boasts of having an ASBO for the way he drives his BMW. Perhaps there's lots of psychological research and theory behind them. I wouldn't know.

    To me personally the ads look like something from Smack the Pony or Not the Nine o'Clock News. I would have preferred something like the old public service announcements explaining VED, road users' rights, ASLs, bike lanes etc. etc. but we don't live in an age where people respond well to authoritarian/authoritative voices.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. My other half's critique is it reads like something given to kiddies in nursery.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    "but we don't live in an age where people respond well to authoritarian voices"

    That is certainly the 'perceived wisdom'. I dont know what evidence there is to back that up.

    When council rolled out the food waste scheme I had an interesting conversation with someone who turned out to have been involved. I commented that the food waste had better take up than the recycling because they just appeared and we we told to use them (of course, when first week wasn't collected everyone stopped). But when recycling was rolled out we all had to opt in. The person who had been involved seemed a bit chagrined - said they spend lots of effort trying to make it not seem heavy-handed/authoritarian. But strawpoll on my staircase behaviour suggested it was more efficient just to tell people to do it!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. Roibeard
    Member

    I think the horse one probably works. Cyclists = unpredictable, weird, not-quite-human but ultimately non-threatening and deserving of our sympathy.

    That's the difference between a cyclist and a horse. A horse is threatening to a vehicle - big, heavy and will cause massive damage to the bodywork if angered, or if struck.

    Cyclists are much softer and squishier and present much less of a threat to the vehicle (oh, and it's occupants, since you've asked...).

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. Though I don't think drivers who drive too close to us are actually thinking "Ah well, it doesn't matter if I hit them", they genuinely just don't think we need that much room. I'm pretty certain most drivers don't actually 'want' to hit a cyclist (because soft and squishy though we are, that bike could still cause some nasty scrapes, as much as anything). And I'd go further and say that most drivers aren't 'indifferent' to the possibility of hitting a cyclist - they'd rather not, but they do honestly think that there's no chance of hitting us even when driving that close, which is the thought you have to counter.

    Whereas I'm not sure many people seeing the campaign will think, ohh, I'll treat that cyclist like a horse.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. Instography
    Member

    In this post I tried to outline what this type of messaging would need to do to change drivers' behaviour. As I view something like Horse I ask myself whether your typical driver will see themselves in the characters portrayed on screen and I decide that they won't because the driver characters is plainly an idiot. The images of cyclists as horses are his imaginings. His response to the voiceover's initial idea that you should treat a cyclist like a horse. So, this advert falls at the first hurdle. See what I did there?

    The psychology behind most of the recent road safety campaigns as been the Theory of Planned Behaviour. You can read about it here. It was the basis of the Foolsspeed campaigns that ran in Scotland for five years to no great impact.

    Here's http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->

    [+] Embed the video | one of them.

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    I actually thought the Foolsspeed campaign was pretty good although the evaluations of it were pretty lukewarm in terms of effectivess.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. Uberuce
    Member

    I like the horse one. The gag of misinterpreting a statement, and then running far into silly territory with it, is right up my comedy street.

    I can't see the kind of person that shaves my elbow giving much more consideration to a horse, so I'm not any happier at the waste of money than anyone else.

    The red light one really should have acknowledged that cyclists are not the only fruit, as far as jumping goes.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. minus six
    Member

    both adverts are aimed squarely at motorists

    Firstly "cyclists" get a great big "othering" with the comedy horse routines

    Then the cyclist red lights advert is also entirely aimed at joe motor public to say "yeah, we know your bugbear about that lot, and you're quite right"

    Two fingers to the nicewaycode and the horse it rode in on

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "Whereas I'm not sure many people seeing the campaign will think, ohh, I'll treat that cyclist like a horse."

    When I questioned this part of the campaign (only shown the graphic and slogan) on the basis that (some) drivers don't exactly treat horses well, the reaction was that 'the British Horse Society likes it'.

    Which presumably meant that they want want drivers to be more careful with horses too.

    So is it -

    'see cyclists and threat them as you would a horse'

    or

    'see cyclists and threat them as you should a horse'

    ?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. kaputnik
    Moderator

    is right up my comedy street

    See there's a problem (not your sense of humour, but the "light hearted" premise of the whole campaign.

    I must have missed the massively successful comedy speeding, drink driving, wear your seatbelt campaigns that were run with much success in years past. The ones that I recall were always serious pieces that showed the gravity of what a moment's inattention or carelessness or a single bad decision could cause, and generally extremelly graphic about the end result.

    So what makes anyone decide that a flippant approach is going to work better? Because a focus group tells you that it doesn't like to hear messages that lays blame and/or responsibility on its shoulders?

    It's insulting that such a serious issue - increasing death and serious injory rates is being treated in such a flippant and amateurish manner.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. amir
    Member

    I much prefer the Irish video pointed out on Beyond the Kerb

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugin

    They could have just dubbed this with a more local voice and slashed the costs of this campaign

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. bdellar
    Member

    Don't get me wrong, I think the campaign is doomed to failure.

    As for the "normal" clothing, I just thought it was nice to see folk on a bike dressed in normal clothing for a change. All to often cyclists are depicted in lycra trying to go at high speeds. Sure, some of us are like that, but a lot of us aren't. I thought it was refreshing to see, well, normal people out and about on a bike.

    I vaguely hope that the message will reach a few people, and might help to "normalise" cycling, and stop us being seen as "other".

    But it's certainly not how I'd've chosen to spend half a million.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Claire Wood (@cmfwood) tweeted at 2:58pm - 19 Jul 13:

    Cracking social strategy workshop with @CyclingScotland and @mike_mcgrail. Lots of food for thought (and conversation).

    https://twitter.com/cmfwood/status/358224381677277184

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    both adverts are aimed squarely at motorists

    Firstly "cyclists" get a great big "othering" with the comedy horse routines

    Then the cyclist red lights advert is also entirely aimed at joe motor public to say "yeah, we know your bugbear about that lot, and you're quite right"

    Yes, absolutely. It's completely patronising and manages to "onside" with those motorists who see cyclists as, at best, oddballs with a scew loose, and at worst, an annoying menace.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. crowriver
    Member

    @chdot, interesting.

    See also: https://twitter.com/cmfwood/status/360015454598750208/photo/1

    And: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23kidsinthecar&src=hash

    Anyone else heard of the 'Kids in the Car' campaign?

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugin

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. Morningsider
    Member

    Ah, "a social strategy workshop". I feel we really need lots more of these. Clearly this is why people don't cycle in Scotland.

    As an aside - I understand the most successful cycling "social strategy" was developed by campaigners in The Netherlands during the 1970's and called "Stop the child murder" - I really, really hope is this the sort of thing they were working on - because if it was more "think bike, talk horse" I think we might as well all give up.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. Kirst77
    Member

    What about the slides that go with it? What's everyone's thoughts on them?
    I've already experiences having objects thrown at me from cars and pedestrians so am looking forward to more of the same "offering them a sugar lump is optional"

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "
    “The Scottish Taxi Federation and its members are fully supportive of the Nice Way Code initiative and remind all taxi drivers to continue taking care by respecting road space for cyclists and all other road users, lives may depend on it”

    "

    http://nicewaycode.com/2013/08/05/scottish-cycling-and-scottish-taxi-federation-comment-on-nice-way-code

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    "What about the slides that go with it? What's everyone's thoughts on them?"

    Extra thread for that -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858

    Posted 11 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    I've got a really bad feeling about the whole approach to these campaigns. It smacks of mutual back slapping and complacent self-satisfaction all round.

    The civil servants and ministers will be congratulating themselves on a job well done, budget spent, target demographics engaged, campaign on message, 'innovative' social media campaign, etc. Boxes ticked, on to the next budget line/policy imperative/target.

    The ad agency creatives will be feeling good about 'making a difference', doing ads that are 'witty, fresh, mould breaking', etc. and not just promoting Tennent's lager. Not only that but they're working on something important that *might save lives* or *make the world a nicer place*. Oh and the budget's not bad.

    Trebles all round!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Nice Way Code (@nicewaycode)
    05/08/2013 14:53
    @SpaceForCycling

    We can't moderate across all platforms. Facebook, Twitter and our blog (which we are getting round to comments) are avail.

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    No budget to deal with 'interactions'(?)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    Another one!!!

    This cheered me up -

    "

    The Nice Way Code (@AyeWayCode)
    05/08/2013 14:20
    #NiceTip: if ye dinnae pass an arm's length frae a boy on a bike, he might stuntjump on tae the roof o' yer motor.

    http://pic.twitter.com/W19oStIiAf

    "

    Wait for the 'cease and desist' notice on use of photo...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  25. neddie
    Member

    Interesting use of a Mercedes convertible in the Think Horse video.

    Hmm.

    Convertibles - unsafe at any speed.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  26. I've been sent pictures of the adverts in the Scotsman today. Two of them, both are just print versions of the slides (one about seeing cyclists as horses, the other asking cyclists not to run red lights). I really do despair of this campaign!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  27. lionfish
    Member

    "The Scottish Taxi Federation and its members ... remind all taxi drivers to continue taking care by respecting road space for cyclists ..."

    ahhahahaaahaahaha ha. *wipes tears from eyes*

    Posted 11 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    "WC How big?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  29. Morningsider
    Member

    chdot - just over a third of a page for each, pages 12 and 13. The Scotsman's circulation is around 32,000 copies a day.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  30. Instography
    Member

    Kids in the Car is a Road Safety Scotland campaign. Road Safety Scotland (formerly the Scottish Road Safety Campaign) has been doing this kind of stuff for years. They produced Foolsspeed too. They used to do lots of good stuff before their budget got slashed.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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