So what about the owners of vehicles?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Killer dogs' owners could face life
(12 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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No, no, no.
If a car kills someone, it is obviously an accident, completely unforeseeable and unpreventable. Thats why we kill about 8 people a day and nothing gets done to stop the carnage.Posted 11 years ago # -
If posties still cycled as part of their job, maybe the union would be chasing motorists too as well as the dog owners. But no, they got rid of bikes on 'health and safety' grounds. Now posties dtive vans or have wee hand carts...
Posted 11 years ago # -
There was a stat posted on Twitter (so don't know if it's true) that since 2005 sixteen people have been killed by dogs in the UK; in the same period over 1,900 people have died on the roads.
Posted 11 years ago # -
WC - it's much worse than you say. Between 2005 and 2011 some 19,392 people died on UK roads.
Posted 11 years ago # -
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/06/man-charged-bull-kills-rambler
If a person in charge of a bull can be charged with manslaughter, can't dog owners face the same charge?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"WC - it's much worse than you say. Between 2005 and 2011 some 19,392 people died on UK roads."
Comma in the wrong place and missing zero.... I thought it seemed a little low!
"If a person in charge of a bull can be charged with manslaughter, can't dog owners face the same charge?2
They can (or culpable homicide in Scotland). Typical government type response though to be seen to be doing something - create a new (unnecessary) law.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@bruce_mcadam - the difference is that it's a Health & Safety issue. Farmers are businesses and as such have responsibilities that their business is carried out safely.
I'm sure that a dog breeder would have the same issues.
However for the general public "accidents" happen whether with their irresponsible handling of animals or vehicles...
Robert
Posted 11 years ago # -
Oops, looks like I've been corrected even before posting by WC, who knows these things better than I.
Robert
Posted 11 years ago # -
Takes me back to Roman Law classes, which had the founding principle of people being responsible for animals which they control. That's found its way into modern law in various guises, and without a codifed criminal law system you can, in theory, phrase a charge to encompass anything (it's a bit like the pointlessness of the new sectarianism laws - you can quite easily bring in that an assault was aggravated by sectarian violence and so on to the charge sheet).
*grump*
Posted 11 years ago # -
All of that said, there ARE bits of legislation on control of dogs in Scotland, and you're more likely to be found guilty of something under one of those acts.
But 'involuntary culpable himicide' is, "is homicide where the mens rea for murder is not present but either the independent mens rea for culpable homicide is present, or the circumstances in which death was caused make it culpable homicide. Involuntary culpable homicide may arise in the context of an unlawful act or a lawful act. The mens rea requirement is different in each case" (cheers wiki) and so if you could show that there was someone who knew they had a dangerous dog, that was aggressive and violent, and some guy walked into a playground and let it off the lead, and it killed a kid, could be charged as culpable homicide (and would be more approriate than failing to control a dog which brings a £500 fine).
Posted 11 years ago # -
Same old problem - people (for the purposes of this post I include politicians within the definition of "people" ;-) ) can't imagine themselves owning a dangerous dog, so those owners whose dogs kill are clearly badpeople and should be locked up.
However, they can quite easily imagine getting behind the wheel of a car and being involved in an incident where someone is killed on the road. It wouldn't be their fault, you understand; they might have just been updating the satnav, taking that unexpected phonecall, telling their kids off, etc, so that doesn't make them a badperson who should be locked up.
Posted 11 years ago #
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