Well, in Innsbruck you get a nice bike lane:
which comes to an end:
and dumps you out in a nice big junction:
with no cycle infrastructure whatsoever.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Brought down by a tram track
(80 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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I can't comment on the standard of driving around cyclists in Innsbruck as I've never cycled there. It should be noted that most of the city is on the valley floor and is pan-flat.
However; my boyfriend used to cycle down to school in the city and then if he couldn't be bothered to cycle back up to the village where he lived (a 200m or so climb) he would put his bike on the bus. He did also cycle up, and he and his friends would cycle up hills in order to cycle down again as fast as possible...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Lived in Amsterdam for six years and had no problems with tram tracks.
However it IS a problem for some people.
When tracks were first laid on Princes Street I was reading about many incidents.
Thought it was a non-story from the media.
My first (walking) subsequent visit to Princes Street saw a cyclist hit a barrier next to the tracks near South Charlotte Street
Few days ago I thought a female cyclist was going to fall off in front of a bus trying to cross the tracks.
She was heading west going one-handed carrying a bag with tram tracks on her left !!! as she passed the Royal Scottish Academy at the mound. She then moved left at a narrow angle. Kudos to the bus driver for hanging back as she had a big wobble and stayed on.
What is my point........
Clearly some cyclists DO have a problem with tram tracks and therefore there will be quite a lot of accidents
Posted 10 years ago # -
How patient are the drivers of trams, buses and taxis in Amsterdam? Perhaps without the sense of barely-restrained anger and imagined threats of "slow down = mown down" incurred by a large engine throbbing menacingly a few feet behind it's easier to go relaxedly slowly over tracks and without the tense arms which might lead to slips and wibbles.
Posted 10 years ago # -
From what I remember of cycling in the 'Dam, cyclists know not to cycle in front of trams.
It's a slightly different place, folk have respect for other forms of transport - which works both ways.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"cyclists know not to cycle in front of trams."
while in Edinburgh, we're expected to...Posted 10 years ago # -
@fimm Where in Edinburgh are cyclists expected to cycle in front of trams ?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Where in Edinburgh are cyclists expected to cycle in front of trams ?"
Can't say where @fimm was thinking of, but Haymarket Yards and StASq to York Place would be just two examples.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Dangerous. On National Cycle routes 1 & 76 at Haymarket Yards, you are forced to cycle where Trams may approach rapidly from behind (i.e you will be cycling in front of a Tram).
Also at the Princes St/S. St. Davis St, it is impossible to avoid cycling 'in front' of trams!
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yes, I was thinking of the Princes St pinch point, Haymarket Yards is another example (though not one I know myself) and we don't know what the St Andrew Square - York Place area will be like yet.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yes Haymarket Yards (eastbound) is a place where you might* find yourself in front of a tram. Other places it would be your choice.
Depends how they use their new traffic lights at both ends of Haymarket Yards.
Don't understand the hysteria and doom-mongers around trams at all.
They do not teleport, are not silent or invisible.
What exactly is the problem ?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Some Amsterdam cyclists certainly _do_ cycle in front of trams, in Leidsestraat for instance, a relatively narrow and busy pedestrianised shopping street with a single tram line down the middle, usually filled with people milling about. Folk cycle up and down it, often between the tram tracks.
Also, I was in the Hague a week or two ago and I think I saw a woman brought down by tram tracks. I'm not sure as I didn't see her fall, but I did see her lying on her side in the middle of a crossroads containing a complicated tram junction. (I didn't find out more; closer people helped her and I don't speak the language.)
Posted 10 years ago # -
"They do not teleport, are not silent or invisible.
What exactly is the problem ?"
They are able to move.
I've not yet been unseated by tram tracks but am able to exhibit empathy for those who have.I expect some people are basing their apprehension of trams on the existing behaviour of other large public service vehicles, which can have a motive force applied to them in such a way that they are moved into a position immediately behind a cyclist, despite the cyclist not having deliberately chosen to position themself immediately in front of the vehicle.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Dangerous - no problem as long as they leave a safe stopping distance when following cyclists. Ah, that's back to driver behaviour isn't it, and asking folk to behave safely is pretty far down the hierarchy of control.
Incidentally I cycled in Sheffield this year, and got myself between the tram tracks where it was in a general traffic lane.
Then the tracks turned right into a "trams only" road...
I did the tourist thing, broke the law, and didn't attempt to continue straight on as there was a tram on my tail (don't remember the distance - I'd now check as the stopping distances seem quite long...).
I found a safe bit to pull over and dismount, walking back to the junction to get to where I wanted to be.
So, Sheffield does have general traffic lanes that are shared with trams, as well as tram only lanes, and cyclists could easily be found with a tram following, just as they could have any other vehicle being driven behind them.
Robert
Posted 10 years ago # -
Some film from Zurich http://www.streetfilms.org/cyclists-vs-rails-in-zurich/
Posted 10 years ago # -
sally, that zurich film was pretty revealing, the residents did exactly as I have done on Princes St - i.e. make a short, sharp deviation which takes you across at a 'good' angle.
I guess the problem will be, as has been mentioned earlier, impatient drivers who spook less confident cyclists?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I suspect I will just avoid routes with tram tracks on them. the film looks as if traffic in Zurich is pretty light compared to Princes St. I dont fancy trying to do a sudden sideways flick with current traffic levels
Posted 10 years ago # -
Tammy,
It terrified me when it was first opened. But now I don't really think twice about it. Just make sure you shoulder-check before any sudden swerves.
I said 'swerves' because I couldn't be bothered to spell 'manoeuvres'.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Saw a TV camera filming a guy with a black hybrid, at the tram stop on St Andrew Sq around 1:30 this afternoon. I didn't get close and the guy was stood next to his bike on the platform.
Posted 10 years ago # -
A heads up:
The tram works at the corner of Manor Place/Atholl Place have been moved slightly overnight, so it's a different angle to cross the tracks at now. It's slightly shallower and is a bit more awkward to cross perpendicular so once again I took them very carefully.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Looks like the huge bollards are being removed from York Place. Less and less contractors these days and two lanes open occassionally, on each way to Elm Row Roundabout.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Went over the tramlines at Haymarket Yards for the first time in the wet (well, drizzle) and it was much more disconcerting even on very wide tyres. Not looking forward to when it's wet/icy/slushy/snowy/windy and dark and you have traffic around too. Recipe for disaster doesn't really cut it.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Does anyone know of any footage taken by falling riders?
I know there's Dave's 'mishap' by Waverley Bridge from a few years ago, but around Haymarket would be better.
Posted 8 years ago # -
There's the bloke who skidded off with a loud wail in the right-hand lane going west at Haymarket - I've seen it posted on here, but can't recally exactly where, though I think I went to look at the site afterwards to see if there was any other metalwork present and then posted a clip of the tracks.
This thread?
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11420
Bound to be one here somewhere:
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11324Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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wingpig is referring I think to this thread…
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13329
(although I recall then that pictures were automatically resized - hence my photos looking stupidly big now)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thanks, esp for old thread link containing http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/cyclist-helmet-cam-video-of-tram-track-crash-1-3516685
Does anyone know guy who fell off/took vid?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think ARobComp does..
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot
I have helmetcam footage of coming off turning right from the bottom of Lothian Road going onto Princes Street from about a year ago in the wet, and caused by my taking a silly small angle over it. Not happened again since, touch wood.
Posted 8 years ago # -
We had one of the tram managers give a talk at the IET last week. A very interesting fact is that the trams apply grease to the track in the same way they apply braking sand. Some of the corners are quite tight and the tram puts the grease down to avoid vibration between the wheel flange and the track. All the more slippy for cyclists!
The reason they haven't been able to do track inserts is the track has a flange on the other side to the actual rail so there isn't a product that would fit. The track is the Rheda City track form. They may look at using cycle friendly track for the extensions if there is enough pressure from cycling groups. It'll be 20 years before we see any track changes on existing segments as that's the design life (with the track bed lasting 50 years and bridges 120 years).
They're also going to be affected by the 20mph speed limit!
Posted 8 years ago #
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