The only speed cameras which can't be used in 20mph limits are the Gatso type 24, as used in fixed sites for more than 23 years. All the other types, including the mobiles in vans and the combined red light and speed cameras, can be used. A FoI reply says that these Gatsos weren't accurate enough below 26mph, but instead of saying they could only be used to provide evidence of speeds above this, the Home Office type approval says they can only be used in speed limits of 30mph and above. The press report says there are 3 fixed cameras that are affected, so that isn't many to change.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial
(797 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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thank you slowcoach for bringing some data to this!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Really don't understand why sensible people keep reporting this was 'police won't enforce':
"And Police Scotland confirmed there would be no extra officers on the streets to enforce the change. It said officers would focus on carrying out enforcement in areas where speeding is regularly reported – as well as around secondary and primary schools. A council spokeswoman said: “Police Scotland will enforce the 20mph limit in the same way they currently enforce other limits, appropriately responding to any motorists observed speeding and taking whatever action’s required.”
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Really don't understand why sensible people keep reporting this was 'police won't enforce':"
That's just shorthand for 'really won't do very much'.
I could say 'the police will never enforce ASL box incursion by cars (there's FoI evidence for that), but if/when it does happen once or twice, that won't really convert things to 'police do enforce ASL box infringements'.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Bit of fuss about not a lot -
(Unless badly filled potholes are a conspiracy to 'enforce' 20mph compliance...)
Posted 7 years ago # -
In fairness by saying, "Really don't understand why sensible people keep reporting this was 'police won't enforce'" you're paraphrasing somewhat.
Certainly my last two comments (if I could ever have the pointed moniker of being a 'sensible' person) were:
"unenforceable because the police have said they won't do anything over and above what they currently do, save maybe around schools"
"(and also on the police saying they won't 'routinely enforce')"
I mean, it may be a pedantic point, but in both those statements it's clear the police have said they will enforce (nothing over and above what they do just now = will enforce the 20mph limit in the same way they currently enforce other limits; and police won't 'routinely enforce', means they do enforce sometimes (which again ties in with the latest statement saying they will respond to speeding concerns)).
Of course another strand to this is, beyond more presence in the initial stages, just how much do we think the police will 'continue' to enforce? I mean, I live in an area that is completely 20mph (save the arterial A1), and has been for the 7 years or so I've lived there. And I have not once seen a police speed check. Not once. There was once a traffic warden with as speed camera outside one of the primary schools, but that was it, in 7 years. Of course this was all before the new scheme when the police did state they won't enforce 20mph zones.
This is a self-policing change. Overall speeds will decrease because of it, and that's a good thing, but I think the police statements have been somewhat disingenuous, and it may be cynical to believe that the police will not do much to enforce this change, but it's a cynicism borne out of years and years of seeing that inaction in practice, and I do think it's slightly naïve, I'm afraid, to believe this will be any different.
Now you know me, if I'm wrong I will come back in 12 months time and say it's wonderful, people are driving at 20mph all over the city because the police have truly taken it upon themselves to enforce the limit, and you see lots of police action on this on a daily basis and it's really having an effect, and I was completely, 100% wrong, and I apologise, and I won't be so cynical in the future.
I've been wrong enough in the past to be perfectly happy to admit it when it happens.
I'd be willing to put a lot of money on not being wrong in this case.
Posted 7 years ago # -
There has still to be a ticket issued for speeding so I would argue it's not being enforced.
Surely its time the police were told they are civil servants and to enforce the law not choose which ones to bother about.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Surely its time the police were told they are civil servants and to enforce the law not choose which ones to bother about. “
The police are not technically civil servants ,thankfully perhaps or would possibly allocate tickets based on statusPosted 7 years ago # -
Good. That's that settled then... :)
Posted 7 years ago # -
What a paper! I'd be lost with out those two line of text from the EEN....
Posted 7 years ago # -
So -
Are the police doing exactly the same as two weeks ago or was 'we'll just do what we normally do' not entirely true?
Posted 7 years ago # -
ASL box fines next??
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Are the police doing exactly the same as two weeks ago or was 'we'll just do what we normally do' not entirely true?"
Without knowing the location of the tickets it's hard to say. They may well still be ignoring the previous area and concentrating on the city centre. However I think it's better we don't know so that people don't feel some areas can be ignored.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'd be a fan of an uphill camera on Leith St
Average speed maybe 2mph in the afternoon but rather more outside peaks
Posted 7 years ago # -
Cllr Nick Cook would rather see the money spent on 20mph "spent on road safety". Quite what he means by that isn't clear. More cyclist education?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Leading road safety charity IAM RoadSmart" - I've heard it all now. No quote from Neil Greig? Presumably the cut and paste keys have finally given up on chipwrapper's computers, he's there in the IAM press release.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@klaxon, re Leith St, I'd like to see some parking enforcement there. Same cars parked every day in the greenway, (Toyota with a 53 plate, silver Golf) which are a pain to go round, especially if you've just come up from the foot of the walk and cars are cutting in early.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@mgj I've been on to the Council about that, and apparently the parking regs are unenforceable; they've told me that "Due to the major redevelopment works in the area and the festival events we cannot carry out the line maintenance work required before enforcement action can take place at this location."
Given that the building work is due to last for a number of years, I guess that means that the 4 or 5 shop-owners' cars which park in the bus lane there all day long, every day of the week, will be there for a number of years yet.
Still, it means that if you're looking for free parking in Edinburgh, you now know where to go...
Posted 7 years ago # -
So "no stopping" signs, like the ones they have at the entrances to that road, are useless? Maybe I'll have a go at parking on the A9.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Not sure where I found the link to this RoSPA stopping distance simulator, but to me it is pretty disingenious.
It seems to suggest that travelling at 30mph on a narrow residential street with parked cars where a kid might run out after a football is just fine, as you will be able to stop in time (provided weather dry, not drunk, nor using phone):
Posted 7 years ago # -
Beautiful line from the Broughton Spurtle on the subject...
"For those wishing to add excitement to an otherwise dull taxi ride, we once again recommend enthusing to the driver about what an improvement the new speed limits represent..."
Hehehe.Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Mark Ruskell, who represents the Mid Scotland and Fife region, said at present there is a “postcode lottery of uncompleted patchworks of part time 20 mph zones across our towns”.
This, he insisted, it was not enough to protect pedestrians, saying: “Children and the elderly are being put at uneccessary risk of injury and death by our failure to deliver consistent speed reduction where people live.”
Mr Ruskell plans to introduce a member’s bill at Holyrood to make 20mph the default speed limit for residential area, instead of 30mph.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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Scotland could become the first country In The world to close the speed related fatality gap?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Transport Minister, 28 September 2016:
"Should we go for a blanket approach? The Government is not—at the moment—convinced of that, because the consultations that we have had with local authorities show that they prefer to have discretion about where to roll out 20mph zones."
Given the Tories also oppose pretty much anything to do with 20mph limits and Labour support is be no means certain, a national default 20mph limit isn't going to happen any time soon.
While it will be entertaining to watch the anti's try and argue against something that is proven to save lives, I would prefer they actually did something to save those lives.
Details: http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=10545&mode=pdf
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I would prefer they actually did something to save those lives."
It's easy to assume that some politicians think '(hard pressed) motorists = votes.
It's reasonable to think 'the money could be better spent'.
BUT
I think it's also reasonable to ask 'so how do you propose to reduce the (vehicle related) KSI numbers.
If they want to say 'spending £x to save y isn't worth it' that's honest - or at least the starting point for a discussion.
Some things perhaps ought to be about 'evidence'.
The problem is evidence shows that average speed cameras question the rationale for some roadbuilding...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yesterday I had an email conversation about 20mph with a current Conservative councillor. They were stressing the importance of evidence.
Posted 7 years ago #
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