Safety on the roads is more than just accident figures. If drving behaviour improves then it should feel safer and more pleasant so then more people may undertake activities such as walking and cycling. Have better accident rates been in part due to fewer pedestrians and cyclists? Which leads to health problems etc
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial
(797 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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20s plenty debunk this bogus data in the press release:
Posted 7 years ago # -
IAM leaping on unrepresentative stats in order to make some spurious unsupported point? I'm shocked.
Posted 7 years ago # -
From link -
"
the roads in the report are atypical of most 20mph roads and even then show increasing compliance on these roads
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Councillor Cook: "motorists should not be treated as “reckless fools”. “In many cases they are clearly making a rational assessment that on too many roads, a 20mph limit is simply not required to drive safely."
Posted 7 years ago # -
Not sure how to square councillor cook's circle.
Motorists are being asked to consider other road users by obeying the highway code. Hardly reckless. As with any other motoring decision drivers make the balance should not be WILL I GET AWAY WITH BREAKING THE HIGHWAY CODE AS I HAVE DONE REGULARLY WITHOUT ANY TROUBLE or WILL I BE CAUGHT IN A CAMPAIGN THAT IS ACTUALLY ENFORCING THE HIGHWAY CODE? VERSUS - Hey maybe for a change I will just follow the highway code and drive in a fashion that is considerate to other road users (obviously not in the rain or if lights are at ambwer already and I need to get through etc)
This morning I was undertaken by a learner driver on a motorbike who must have filtered up the left turning lane at Gillespie X road but gone straight ahead but felt that instead of trying to fix their error they should just take the cyclist out as I was merging back into the left lane (to let cars overtake in the right lane) throttle it and get by before he thinks of a shoulder check OVER HIS LEFT SHOULDER.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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Fife council had some data on this (I'll try and find linkie), and what they found was; that yes most drivers were breaking the speed limit, but they were breaking it whatever the limit was.
So average speed when limit was 30, was 34mph, and average when 20 limit introduced was 25mph.
Even if most drivers are breaking the limit, but there is still a reduction in speed of around 9mph, then it's still worth while...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Cllr Cook basically parroting the IAM Fake News line and adding "see, we told you".
Sigh.
Do we really have to put up with another FIVE YEARS of his cr@p?
(Whispering voice) Nick, the seagulls, don't forget the seagulls...
Posted 7 years ago # -
"there is still a reduction in speed of around 9mph, then it's still worth while..."
Good point/news.
Wonder how long it takes drivers to 'adjust'.
If, after a 20mph has been in for a while, the frequent/common speed is still over 30 I would hope the police would take some action.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Edinburgh West was due to get 20mph at the end of July but I've seen no sign of activity. Has this been delayed?
Posted 7 years ago # -
There's lots of good evidence in the consultation paper for Mark Ruskell's 20mph bill https://files.smartsurvey.io/2/0/IRQ8JRPG/20170622_FINAL_VERSION_NGBU.pdf
(If you haven't already responded to this you should - can do so here http://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/20mphSpeedLimits/)
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Stickman - Which bit of West Edinburgh? The bit west of the bypass was (slightly confusingly) part of Zone 1, and changed to 20mph in July last year. Zones 4 and 5 (Cramond, Drum Brae, Corstorphine, South Gyle...) are due to change at the end of August.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Thanks, I must have my dates mixed up - thought it was July.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Next phase comes into force 16th August.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I noticed 20mph roundels on Braepark this week. The first sign of the next stage of the roll out? Sadly my road isn't due to change so will still have ejits driving at 50 despite it being a 30.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
NICE recommends urban speed reduction for better air quality. NICE guidance says 20mph limits without physical measures in urban areas help “avoid unnecessary acceleration and deceleration”.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
CMPG - Road Policing (@Trafficwmp)
31/07/2017, 4:40 pm
This should be common sense. Unfortunately common sense is in short supply that's why @bham20mph is so important to our communitiesPosted 7 years ago # -
“
A BID to make 20mph speed limits the norm on roads in residential urban areas across Scotland has been backed by two SNP local government chiefs.
The leader of the Glasgow City Council, Susan Aitken, and the leader of Edinburgh City Council, Adam McVey, have both come out in favour of reducing the default speed limit from 30mph to 20mph. They say this would help them introduce traffic-calming and create a culture of “pedestrian priority”.
Eighty per cent of responses to a public consultation have also supported a 20mph member’s bill being put forward by the Scottish Green MSP, Mark Ruskell. They included 200 organisations, such as local authorities, community councils, parent groups and health charities.
“
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15583158.Glasgow_and_Edinburgh_both_back_20mph_speed_limit/
Posted 7 years ago # -
I wonder how much it would now cost Edinburgh to remove all these signs to implement a default limit?
Posted 7 years ago # -
“
The Scottish Parliament will be able to vote next year on whether the default speed limit in built up areas should be lowered from 30mph to 20mph.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
Excellent stuff from @TheBluetrot on 20mph speed limits today; @ScotParl should learn from lazy, ineffectual blanket @Edinburgh_CC scheme. Targeted lower limits key. https://t.co/qPbVUPcGsk
Cllr Cook still havibg a go at 20mph...
Posted 6 years ago # -
"My source [whoever that could be] told me he supported 20mph limits around schools and day care centres or such like, and thought they could work in housing estates where there were no highways - but on general arterial and commuter routes the speed had to be 30mph..."
...so...uh...exactly what we have?
Posted 6 years ago # -
There are no "highways" in Edinburgh.
Apart from the industrial estates and business parks, nearly every street is residential or shopping. Exceptions would be the WAR (40mph), Calder Road (40mph, but on school, college routes), Harry Lauder Road.
The artificial distinction between "arterial" and "residential" p***es me off no end.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Edinburgh is 10 miles across. Going the whole way at 40mph rather than 30mph saves you five whole minutes. Less if you have to stop for any reason.
Posted 6 years ago # -
There are no "highways" in Edinburgh.
Indeed.
Technically, I don't think there are any in Scotland (we call them roads). But we shouldn't expect "long-serving senior politicians" (be they opposition transport spokespersons or not) to know that, should we?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Here's a teaser for Cllr Cook from his own ward. Almost two hundred 5 and 6 year old pupils at South Morningside primary have to walk along Morningside Road twice a day to get to and from the Deanbank infant annexe (which is technically outside the school's own catchment area).
Pavements are narrow and crowded, there are no crossing patrol people on the route. Parents sheparding small children already find the traffic on this arterial route terrifying, are you really arguing for the limit to be increased here?
If not here, then where? After all, kids need to get between home and school - often along arterial routes.
Posted 6 years ago # -
So, having got bored of waiting to hear if Cllr Cook has identify any streets to return to 30mph, I decided to ask other Conservative Cllrs.
Cllr Mowat replied
"Well, I always advocated the city centre should be 20mph to reduce signage and because the streets are either busy with pedestrians or residential so fit the categories we’d use to determine reduced speed limit"
I did eventually get a response from Cllr Cook
"Thanks Hank. On 20mph our proposal was to halt further implementation and conduct officer led review of the scheme operation. Clearly my own pref for far more targeted scheme and tangible road safety measures"
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
What was described to me is patently an unworkable system that is likely to be changed because few politicians will have the audacity to say publicly it does not work for fear of being branded as pro-car, pro-pollution and against pedestrian safety.
To pass national legislation that will make 20mph the default speed in built up urban areas of Scotland only extends this absurdity.
A universal 20mph limit does not reduce pollution, it makes it worse; for car engines, be they diesel or petrol, are far more polluting at low speeds than at their optimal higher speeds.
The anecdotal evidence I am hearing is a universal 20mph limit does not reduce accidents – but probably causes more through greater road rage. They are probably not recorded because they are displaced and now in different places.
“
Can someone explain the last sentence to me please?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence.
Posted 6 years ago #
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