CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial

(605 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from wingpig

  1. algo
    Member

    Not just any anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence he is *hearing* - that's the best kind of anectodal evidence

    Posted 5 months ago #
  2. Frenchy
    Member

    Can someone explain the last sentence to me please?

    Against my better judgment, I've spent a few minutes trying to figure out what it means. I still haven't a clue. It doesn't make any sense.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    “Against my better judgment”

    Sorry (and thanks).

    Posted 5 months ago #
  4. Frenchy
    Member

    If anything, one would expect that the 20mph limits cause drivers to spend more time on "arterial" roads, in order to maximise the time they spend sitting at red lights travelling at 30mph. I would expect a collision or road rage incident to be more likely to be reported if it happened on a busier road, no?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  5. HankChief
    Member

    Would anyone like to hear my anecdotal evidence?

    On my daily commute down quiet back roads I do see vehicles exceeding the 20mph limit on a regular basis. This could be because they live there but is more likely that they are using it as a rat run. The equation for drivers to choose between a main road (at 20mph because someone is observing the limit) vs back road where no one is watching, is tipped further towards the back roads.

    I'd like to see more traffic calming on back roads to tip this equation back towards the main road.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  6. HankChief
    Member

    Cllr Webber has responded to my request

    "Slateford Rd, at the BP garage switches from 30-20 mph city bound....not my ward but it should be 30mph"

    I have some respect for this view. She is the first one to identify any road that should be at a higher limit. It's a short stretch of 4 lane road - but it soon becomes 2 lanes by the church.

    You could atleast put this into the 'debateable' category. (I still think it should be 20mph tho)

    Posted 5 months ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    “It's a short stretch of 4 lane road”

    Like many others, no need for four.

    Plenty room for bike lanes.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  8. HankChief
    Member

    Cllr Whyte's response

    "We need a network of main roads that are 30. We were promised that would be maintained but ..."

    I've asked him to be more specific...

    Posted 5 months ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

  10. Frenchy
    Member

    "They don’t join up so not a network."

    He appreciates the irony, right? Right?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  11. Klaxon
    Member

    I am becoming a greater and greater fan of the formal Dutch delineation of distributor and local roads, each having a separate set of design principals

    Local roads having parking, traffic calming, often filtered, not necessarily separate cycle lanes as not needed

    Distributor roads having wider lanes for heavier traffic, bus priority, continuous cycle lanes and safe side road crossings. The big defining factor of these roads seems to be that kerbside parking is last priority after the necessary movement of people and goods - buses, cycles, and indeed other cars - has been catered for. They are not necessarily high speed limit roads but you’ll ‘make good progress’ to steal an advanced driving term

    No need for mile upon mile of TROs and double yellow lines either, as spaces appear to be defined by where you are allowed to stop, not where you’re not.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  12. Klaxon
    Member

    How this applies to Edinburgh? We don’t define well what a road is for, so we get an end product that suits nobody

    We prioritise parking over all other needs leading to an assumption that all roads must have lanes wide enough for kerbside parking (and narrowing their effective width by 5.5m). This is enough for an NL-width cycle lane on every road.

    Where we have provided bus lanes, they have a guddle of parking and loading hours allowed within them leading to them becoming off peak choke points

    The weekly Sunday farce.

    We don’t build side roads that look like side roads and with the advent of smart sat nav they’re themselves becoming major through routes

    We are building an 1800 space car park in the centre of town without simultaneously removing all surrounding on street parking

    Posted 5 months ago #
  13. PS
    Member

    I'd like to see more traffic calming

    Agreed. Filtered permeability would sort so much of this.

    On my commute that would look like closing cross-New Town rat runs with judicious use of bollards, which has worked a treat on Cornwallis Place/Summer Bank.

    Locals seem to dislike that idea until their street becomes a rat run, and then they swing right behind. Lots of Albany Street and Abercrombie Place residents were advocating it when York Place traffic was diverted along there due to the tram works.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  14. Rob
    Member

    That article could replace "20 mph" with "30 mph" and still be just as applicable.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  15. steveo
    Member

    not my ward

    I love this, its like official nimby. Was going to say on twitter but figured it wouldn't help Hanks constructive engagement.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  16. HankChief
    Member

    I think the constructive engagement ended when other people piled in...

    Posted 5 months ago #
  17. steveo
    Member

    I'll take solice in not making it worse...

    Posted 5 months ago #
  18. unhurt
    Member

    We are building an 1800 space car park in the centre of town without simultaneously removing all surrounding on street parking

    This bears repeating, repeatedly! Gah, and I was just reading Brent Toderian on Twitter re how devoting excess space to parking (car storage) is damaging for "places" with aspirations to be anything other than a bit grim.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  19. neddie
    Member

    I think the constructive engagement ended when other people piled in...

    Oops. That may have been me. Sorry

    Posted 5 months ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

  21. chdot
    Admin

    Mr Ruskell has put forward proposals for a member’s bill to reduce the speed limit in built-up areas from 30mph to 20mph.

    He said: “Momentum is growing for slower speeds to create safer streets which encourage more walking and cycling.”

    Transport Minister Humza Yousaf has met Mr Ruskell regarding his plans.

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2568602/record-breaking-cyclist-mark-beaumont-pedal-on-parliament/

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  22. sallyhinch
    Member

    This might explain why the Mail on Sunday photographer was so keen to have Mark Ruskell pointed out to him at POP

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  23. cb
    Member

    Discussed on Call Kaye this morning if anyone can stomach it.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  24. neddie
    Member

    Nick Cook's take:

    https://twitter.com/CllrNickCook/status/990885024777064448

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  25. Morningsider
    Member

    neddie - it's a tricky one, should I believe Prof Chris Oliver BSc (Hons), MB. BS, FRCS (Eng), FRCS (Tr and Orth), FRCS (Ed), FRCP (Ed), DMI RCSEd, FFSTEd, FRSA, DM.

    or Nick Cook.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  26. Stickman
    Member

    We've had enough of experts. Kneejerk reactionaries are who we turn to these days.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    Below NC’s tweet -

    One person says it lowers pollution and injuries and one person says it doesn't. No references to back it up. I don't think I'll buy that paper.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    Either NC is being selective with the ‘facts’ or he’s just making stuff up (or both).

    Just reading his Herald piece shows he doesn’t really understand the issues and clearly just wants things to be the way (he imagines) they are.

    I suppose that’s one definition of conservative.

    But it’s really not in his interest to (appear to) champion the expectations of drivers (law abiding or otherwise) rather than a wider constituency that includes children, adults - especially children minders and those without the ability to cross roads briskly.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    PROPOSALS to make Scotland the first country in the world with a default speed limit of 20mph will be considered by MSPs within weeks.

    The Member's Bill by Green MSP Mark Ruskell has cross-party support, including from 12 SNP MSPs, but has sparked warnings that a blanket slowdown of traffic in residential and built-up areas will hit the economy.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16192336.Bid_to_cut_national_speed_limit_in_Scotland_from_30mph_to_20mph/

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  30. gembo
    Member

    How could a blanket slowdown hit the economy? People would just acquire blanket patience?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #

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