@chdot NC is a bear of little brain
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial
(797 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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has sparked warnings that a blanket slowdown of traffic in residential and built-up areas will hit the economy
Why would anyone care what happened to something as nebulous as an economy?
The economy is a deity which cries when we sin against it by, for instance, slowing down in our automobiles.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Economy controlled by oil producers rather than 20mph limiteers
Posted 6 years ago # -
Enforcement is getting serious.
A cardboard cut out of a policeman with a speed gun has been fixed to a lamppost in Eglinton Crescent.
If that doesn't stop speeding then nothing will.
Posted 6 years ago # -
That seems a bit of a risk, like the caption-your-own-Tory-election-poster thing a few years back. What other objects can the cardboard polis hold?
Posted 6 years ago # -
This meta-study https://trl.co.uk/sites/default/files/PR058.pdf … concluded that a 1 mph rise in speeds is linked with a 5% increase in crashes when controlling for other possible causal factors. I've not found any more recent research contradicting this basic relationship.
https://twitter.com/CllrChasBooth/status/1012646109943037952
That means for 10mph increase, crashes go up by 63%. For a 20mph increase, up by 165%.
Posted 6 years ago # -
will hit the economy
Aye but we know that only 10% of economies are killed when hit at 20mph compared to 50% of economies hit at 30mph.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"How could a blanket slowdown hit the economy?"
I think the market for blankets is quite small these days anyway outside the woolen jumpered vintage hipster segment. Now if we were facing a duvet slowdown (or a slowartificialfibre) then the economic shock could be noteworthy - mainly folk having to wait a bit longer before throwing out the "old" one they bought a year ago (perfectly usable and clean-ish but not new enough to keep up with the Joneses) for a brand new one. Bedding shops would experience much gnashing of teeth and wailing at the dearth of impulse buying duvet snapper-uppers.
In any case Brexitite tarriffs and border controls will likely slow down the market for blankets and duvets far more than road speed limits.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Cardboard cops...they do know it rains a bit in Edinburgh, right?
Posted 6 years ago # -
I expect they are plastic really.
“Plastic Police” doesn’t sound quite...
Posted 6 years ago # -
“20mph” activities & materials being given out by the council. Am trying to think of what fun things I can do with the stickers
Posted 6 years ago # -
You can borrow a pop-up policeman with a speed gun, so long as you promise to bring him inside every night.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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I missed this at the time, but worth watching Lesley Macinnes put my local councillor Scott Douglas very firmly in his place over his attention seeking anti-20mph hysteria.
https://edinburgh.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/368095
(Go to 24mins 30secs)
Posted 6 years ago # -
ouch.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Direct link to the right part of the webcast
https://edinburgh.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/368095/start_time/1474000
Posted 6 years ago # -
The Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee would like to hear your views on the Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Scotland) Bill
You can tell them your views in a short survey (5 minutes, or even just 5 seconds) here:
http://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/20mphBill/Or you can send them more detailed evidence by emailing Restricted.Roads20MPHBill@parliament.scot
Posted 6 years ago # -
Done
Posted 6 years ago # -
Also done.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“There is “insufficient evidence” that a 20mph speed limit has led to a significant reduction in the number of crashes and casualties in UK residential areas, a government-commissioned study has found.
There has been a substantial growth in the number of 20mph limits following the Department for Transport’s decision in 2013 to encourage local authorities to consider the measure in a bid to reduce casualties and boost walking and cycling.
The report also found that a majority of vehicles break the speed limit in the 20mph zones in residential areas.
Forty-seven per cent of motorists comply with the limit on roads near houses, rising to 65% in city centres.
Although a “substantial proportion” of drivers are speeding in those areas, there has been an increase in the number of drivers travelling at less than 24mph, which suggests “faster drivers have slowed down”
Journey times are estimated to have increased by 3% in residential areas and 5% in city centres, adding less than a minute to a five-mile trip.
The government commissioned consultancy firm Atkins to examine vehicle speeds in 12 areas where the limit was reduced from 30mph to 20mph.“
Posted 6 years ago # -
We asked global civil engineering company Atkins (a.k.a road building co.) to do some research on whether their clients wanted to travel more slowly on their facilities.
Hmmm. So no bias there then.
Posted 6 years ago # -
If the Atkins data is robust enough it can be added to the large amount of data that links speed to fatalities and injuries.
Though of course this evidence is all for speeds above the 30mph and indeed is all in kmh so will not count after 29.03.19
Posted 6 years ago # -
Apparently the speed data is based on GPS info from SatNav systems. That seems to be a pretty obvious flaw in the methodology.
https://twitter.com/20splentyforus/status/1065864850381959168
Posted 6 years ago # -
So 20mph zones aren't effective because they're not enforced. An earth-shattering revelation. (The taxi I took to Waverley a few weeks back was being driven noticeably "briskly" along Braid Road which has a 20mph limit. I surreptitiously checked our speed using the GPS on my phone: 38mph. That would have been illegal back when it was a 30mph limit. I don't think I've ever seen speed enforcement being carried out on that road, although there are speed camera tick marks on the northbound side just after the crest of the hill.)
I also note from the linked article that another goal of 20mph limits is to "increase levels of walking and cycling". The report doesn't seem to say much about whether they are effective in achieving that.
Finally, to twist a well-known phrase or saying: "insufficient evidence" is not evidence of insufficiency.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The report also showed strong support for 20mph schemes amongst residents, that this support actually increases after implementation and that there is no appetite to increase limits back. Also that journey times are not noticeably changed, that there is a perception that ratrun are no longer attractive.
Finally, those who are opposed tend to be those who are more likely to break other speed limits.
Posted 6 years ago # -
...and the one scheme where was sufficient data to show an effect was in Brighton, where a “blanket” 20mph limit resulted in a 20% decrease in collisions and a 29% decrease in pedestrian casualties.
Perhaps it’s time to reclaim “blanket” from the scare-story opponents.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Why not just substitute "duvet" instead to show how ridiculous a usage it is?
"Duvet bans are not effective"
Or
"Duvet bans are effective"
Posted 6 years ago #
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