“they're holding their party conference in Edinburgh on the POP weekend”
That’s foolish...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial
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Posted 5 years ago #
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How much is a stall inside the conference?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Fortune. Party of government - can't remember who it was tried to get a stall last year and gave up - only corporates can afford that stuff.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"roads that aren't self enforcing and people will flout the law." According to the police there is no such thing as a "self enforcing road" just look at the A9 and people flout the law all the time, that doesn't take away from the need for the law or the need to enforce it!
Posted 5 years ago # -
OK who is up for a die in outside EICC? This is a message which has to be sent!
Posted 5 years ago # -
Juniper Green councillor Susan Webber posed happily beside traffic police enforcing the 20mph speed limit today.
Juniper Green councillor Susan Webber is a member of the Conservative group which has been vociferously opposing 20mph speed limits.
https://twitter.com/sjwebber_phw/status/1111217332817481728?s=21
Posted 5 years ago # -
Lorraine Kelly got off some tax by arguing that she is an actor playing a character called 'Lorraine Kelly'.
Same with Conservative politicians. These are the views of Susan Weber, those are the views of 'Susan Weber'.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Stickman - now I've spent the last few minutes in fascinated horror, looking at Tory Councillors' twitter feeds. Who knew people actually took Alan Partridge to be a role model?!
Posted 5 years ago # -
Major review on Bristol 20mph finds what we already knew from BRITE study - 20mph is saving 4 lives a year, preventing 11 serious injuries and 159 minor injuries, and save £11.25m a year. All for a capital outlay of £2.4m paid for from a central Govt grant
Posted 5 years ago # -
when will this bill be voted on? I have finally got round to contacting my MSPs and hope I'm not too late.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Vote is today, so you were on time.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Good, although I wonder how many will read it on time.
The two responses I've had so far are rubbish. Talking about monitoring it before it progresses through parliament.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Being debated now: https://www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/the-debating-chamber
Suggest having a pile of stress balls ready.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Bill failed.
83 against (SNP/Conservatives/Lib Dems)
26 for (Greens/Labour)
4 abstentions.Dismal but expected. Think I’ll go and write a strongly worded email expressing my displeasure.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Defeated as the SNP, Tories and LibDems all voted against.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Very disappointed. The ball is in the government's court now - they've promised to continue to do 'everything' to cut road deaths. Might be worth enquiring what that is?
Posted 5 years ago # -
I suggest keeping a public tally of all the road casualties that could have been avoided had these MSPs voted for 20mph limits across Scotland's residential areas. Could be on the internet.
A bit like Iraq Body Count but on Scottish streets...
Posted 5 years ago # -
Cole-Hamilton trying to defend the indefensible...
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1139209019720122368?s=19
Posted 5 years ago # -
That is a crushing defeat. I'm guessing that the proposal was not popular in focus groups. Car culture reigns. It is the dominant transport paradigm even amongst non-drivers.
The question is how to change that. I'm at a bit of a loss.
Posted 5 years ago # -
As much as I would prefer a blanket 20 rather than the mashup that actually came through the bill, this reply from Cole-Hamilton makes sense:
“And frankly, it delineates why we have local authorities. They know their communities and should and can make good enough decisions on this. Less so than central government do”
Posted 5 years ago # -
“Less so than central government do”
Said the MSP who wishes he had enough colleagues to form a government!
Posted 5 years ago # -
Utter horse eggs from ACH.
1. A restricted road can be a C-class road, an unclassified road or any road classified as a restricted road by order. Quite a few roads that look like A and B class have actually been classified as restricted roads. Any local authority that wants to reclassify an A or B class road as restricted can choose to do so (even on a trunk road - as long as Transport Scotland agree).
2. No need for any extra street lighting. Signage requirements aren't massively onerous, but - guess what - the Scottish Government can change them quite easily if needs be.
3. The Financial Memorandum did not "vastly underestimate" the costs. The costs were estimated by the Society of Chief Officers of Transportation Scotland (who represent the heads of Transport at all 32 Scottish councils) and they stand by the figures. As the people who would have to implement the Bill, they have detailed knowledge of the costs involved and a vested interest in getting these figures right.
4. Central Government already set a national limit on restricted roads - 30mph. Local authorities can reduce this to 20mph, but the process is expensive, time consuming and dependent on political will. Roughly 80% of roads in Edinburgh now have a 20mph limit, with the remaining 20% at higher speeds (many of which are A and B roads and not affected by the Bill). It's far cheaper and easier to raise the limit on 10% of roads using TROs, than lowering the limit on 80% of roads.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Been twenty for a while in Edinburgh, in parts, is there a discernible difference? Mrs Garto sticks to the limit, when she spots the signage and it seems fine. Overtaken a fair bit, undertaken a fair bit but on the whole fine.
Occasionally I am cycling through. Cowgate wind behind, no beer lorries at twenty and sometimes overtaken.
Mostly I am on the WoL path though but muddy at moment. To avoid all drivers.
My feeling is the 20 limit works in Edinburgh in a fuzzy way. People need to self regulate and take it slow, become better drivers noticing the world et cetera
Extending this to rest of Scotland has been a bridge too far alas
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
as I write, the SNP are allying themselves with the Tories in the Scottish Parliament to oppose a strikingly modest proposal that Scotland reduce its urban speed limit to a default level of 20mph, thereby saving lives of pedestrians and cyclists, and perhaps encouraging some commuters out of their cars.“
Posted 5 years ago # -
I came through Holyrood Park by automobile the other day. Mindful of videos posted here I progressed at 20mph. Following vehicles concertinaed up behind and I felt a bit awkward but no one overtook. I detect inside myself a conviction that driving at 20mph in town is a bit weird. I've felt that before with things I was brought up to see as normal but have since decided on my own opinion.
Seen from my bicycle 20mph seems fine. Seen from the seat of a Yodel van hired for the day by someone in bogus self-employment on 50p a delivery.....
Might it be that the general atomisation and brutalisation of people's lives have made this kind of intervention seem threatening rather than enriching?
Posted 5 years ago # -
“Might it be that the general atomisation and brutalisation of people's lives have made this kind of intervention seem threatening rather than enriching?”
As part of the general ‘this is the way it has to be’ about things like austerity and ‘free movement’ alleged by the Gov and dripped by much of the media.
Little room for thoughts about enrichment.
Similarly ‘I need my car’ is more or less a reality for many people due to years of (bad) planning, lack of alternatives and general propaganda.
Posted 5 years ago # -
IWRATS I think that's precisely it. I was at a focus group run by Edinburgh University the other day, and the 20mph zones are seen as part of the "War on the motorist" (sic). I tried to be conciliatory in recognising exactly the point you've just made - that driving at 20 on a wide road at night with no other traffic around seems very slow (e.g. Grange Road), because of what we are used to as the norm.
Unfortunately, the difficulty is that the "evidence" which is observed and understood on the whole is immediate - i.e. 20 is slower than 30 and perceptibly so. The evidence that in fact general traffic flow in cities is not measurably affected, or that making roads safer encourages more active travel and hence fewer single-use car journeys and reduced congestion is not immediate. Indeed when I argued about greater compliance with the recent (sadly failed) bill, the response was that maybe that was the case but not immediately - "maybe in 10 years". Those are the timescales I consider when making decisions about change - conservative decisions which just maintain the status quo and held fast by the immediate perceptible benefits not being evident. So the fact 20mph feels slow is what is the greatest tangible evidence many people consider.
As you do, I have a great deal of sympathy for van drivers with nowhere sensible to park and insane delivery timescales being paid pittances. I think the key is somehow to help people envisage the benefits that are not immediately perceptible.
Or something. I dunno.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Sadly measures to save lives are ‘too difficult’ to implement due to lack of will, inertia, cost etc -
Posted 5 years ago # -
Holyrood Park is probably where it 'does' feel weirdest, as it feels like a country road. i've been overtaken in the car there, but more often just that exact concertina of cars that's mentioned (which perfectly illustrates everyone else was going faster than the limit to catch up).
“Might it be that the general atomisation and brutalisation of people's lives have made this kind of intervention seem threatening rather than enriching?”
I think that's probably spot on. It's sort of like that quote about equality seeming like an eroding of your rights if you're used to privilege.
Posted 5 years ago #
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