CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Where are all the peds?

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  1. Dave
    Member

    For my own amusement I kept count today.

    I thought the canal was comparatively busy with peds, but the count was still 2:1 weighted to bikes.

    NEPN was even less well used, with bikes outweighing peds by 4:1 until I got to the school at the bottom (but we still came out at better than 2:1 after I passed the crowds).

    Considering that I was only counting roughly half the bikes (since you don't cross paths with all the ones going your way) it might mean that for most of NEPN peds are outnumbered by 8:1

    Weird or what.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. SRD
    Moderator

    isn't this the ATAP elephant in the room - the EEN may claim that 'drivers are shifting to bikes to avoid congestion' but in reality isn't it mostly pedestrians and bus users?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. allebong
    Member

    Definitely more bikes on my commute in the past week (through Roseburn park/Haymarket Yards at least) though that brings it about even with peds. The majority of bikes I've seen seem to be in the somewhat serious commuter category with panniers etc though there is also a decent number of casual people.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. DaveC
    Member

    Lots of bikes through the summer for me really. I agree there does appear to be an increase in the Tourer/hibrid with mudguards, rack and a pannier.

    We spotted a tandem on the A90 path yesterday morning with two panniers. I enquired if they were doing Jogle, but no, the pilot was taking his wife to work (quite amusing) and I assume he rode the bike home after dropping her off?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. SRD
    Moderator

    why amusing?

    That's just what tandems are good for - dropping off and picking people up!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Funnily enough I was going to say "It's pretty much like SRD or Mr SRD dropping off the big wee one and carrying on to work", where indeed Mr may have been heading afterwards.

    I swear tandems are becoming more common - seeing one a week at least just now.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    If I cycle past a colleague on the way to work, I often offer them a lift. For some reason no one's accepted yet!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I'd take that lift. I'd also be cycling with my knees up around my ears, but hey, I'd take that lift.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. DaveC
    Member

    [rolls eyes], why did I know someone would come along and ask that question. Why do some people assume 'amusing' is a negative comment? I don't laugh at everyone's misfortune.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    And now you've just said it's misfortune to be riding a tandem! Duck and cover DaveC!!!! ;)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    The peds have all gone back home. Festivus in its death throes, nearly September, Edinburgh's quite month...

    And yeah, tandems make excellent people carriers: the passenger contributes to the 'engine' too. Our tandem has been gathering dust in recent weeks, as my son now prefers his own bike. For longer journeys (15km+) the tandem is still better as he doesn't get so tired.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    "I'd also be cycling with my knees up around my ears, but hey, I'd take that lift."

    You're not that much taller than Mr SRD. Should fit you fine now that I've taken the crank shortners off.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. SRD
    Moderator

    @davec - i didn't suggest it was negative but I don't understand why a bloke giving his wife a lift to work would be amusing - in either a positive or a negative way.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. Dunny
    Member

    I've found them. They're all walking along the cycle lane on the shared use at Stenhouse. All of them.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. gembo
    Member

    September used to be the festival over, the students not back, the place to yourself kind of thing, but university terms are early now, I predict a riot of pavement cycling, RLJing but hey, they are only learning about life so I will cut them some slack

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. Nelly
    Member

    "They're all walking along the cycle lane on the shared use at Stenhouse"

    That's OK, as I usually cycle along the walkie bit....or do I? Its shared use, so anything goes, no?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. Dunny
    Member

    I've never though of it that way before, it's just those markings of bikes on one side, peds on the other that nag me into sticking to my one I guess. Tending to just stay on the road more these days anyway, just joining the thing legally from the east side is a pain.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. allebong
    Member

    "I've found them. They're all walking along the cycle lane on the shared use at Stenhouse. All of them."

    Seems like peds have also mastered the art of being in two places at once as there was plenty strewn across the meadows shared paths last night.

    I was coming back from the bikestation via the meadows/canal at around 7:30pm and even then there were plenty of bikes of all types. Commuters, folders, fixies, roadies, couple of mtbers, hybrids....surprised I never seen a tandem or recumbent!

    Much as I like to see people sticking to the bike when the dark nights roll in I shudder to think what the canal will be like if half them are unlit and the other half are running retina searing laser beams. Mix in a few peds, dogs and runners and there's guaranteed to be fun times.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Dunny
    Member

    [i]"Much as I like to see people sticking to the bike when the dark nights roll in I shudder to think what the canal will be like if half them are unlit and the other half are running retina searing laser beams. Mix in a few peds, dogs and runners and there's guaranteed to be fun times"

    Wetsuit on the Xmas list then. Or car.

    I actually had a bit of a go at the 4th or 5th group of peds in the bike lane yesterday. I did pass them slowly, actually just on the grass beside the path, but even that appeared to be too close/fast and I was hit with a torrent of abuse from one purple-haired young madam in the group. I may have said something like "well just stick to your side then, it's fair to assume that there will be bikes in the bike lane. They even draw pictures of little bikes in the lane for stupid people like yourself."

    I don't recommend this approach.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. Uberuce
    Member

    I had a notion in January or so, when I had the day off and my bike was at the vet having its back paw mended, to walk along the canal at 5.30 and return on the bike, to see what it was like. At the time there had been some discussion here of the ego-stroking bright light problem.

    About 200m in, after being alternately blinded by badgerkillingly powerful LEDs and then proto-flinching as completely blackbody joggers would only appear from the gloom about one metre away, I gave up on the notion of returning via the canal.

    I was wearing a white cycling jacket(with almost no reflective trim on the front, I admit), and from the grand total of two peds I'd met who wore or carried anything light I knew I'd be very visible to the badgerkillers, but for the other 5% of the scale, with lights so poor I barely saw them before the joggers, I turned on my own light and shone it at my feet so it was obvious that I wasn't on a bike.

    This actually helped a little with the dazzling, since I wasn't constantly opening and shutting my irises, but still, I don't intend to repeat the experience.

    With regard to the Broomhouse path, I prefer pedestrians to stay on the bike half since it gives a layman's excuse for me riding on the ped half over the rumblestrips. The actual reason I do it, even when both halves are deserted, is apparently not obvious to the tramworks people, and by extension Joe Ped/Driver.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. threefromleith
    Member

    Stenhouse Path - I hope no-one on here emulates the pillock I witnessed on the path heading towards the Gyle at around 6.30am back in July, who - on an otherwise empty path - cycled up behind a girl walking on the Cycle side and proceeded to stay behind her, ringing his bell like an idiot. After about 20 secs of harassing her, he pulled out a little and deliberately rattled his elbow off her elbow as he passed, still ringing his wee bell for all he was worth.

    Why he couldn't have just passed her on the empty ped side, I don't know - but I guess he had to act the petty bully in order to make his pathetic point. Harrassing a single female at 6.30am with no-one else around strikes me as a very worrying move.

    Guy was on a road bike, fully kitted-out in team lycra.

    As I reached her, I wanted to stop and apologise to the poor girl before she thought all cyclists were idiots like him, but thought she was scared enough without having another lycra-clad stranger approach her.

    Yes, peds blocking that path can be a minor annoyance - but behaviour like his does us no favours.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. Dunny
    Member

    "Yes, peds blocking that path can be a minor annoyance - but behaviour like his does us no favours."

    I agree totally, this kind of thing creates us and them-ness. That particular incident sounds pretty extreme though! My shenanigans yesterday were nowhere near what you describe @threefromleith, I had a little bit of a snip at the peds, but only because they were blocking both the ped lane and cycle lane both, and because of the abuse I took once I passed them. I only got to spout so much because it was at the lights at the junction outside the Govt buildings. Still feel pretty bad about it though. 99% of the time I join in the ped/cycle lane slalom like everyone else.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. Nelly
    Member

    Bells on Bikes - its the future.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. Dunny
    Member

    A bell just initiates a kind of line dance in front of me.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Having been a bell sceptic for many many years, the bell I have now seems to get heard from a good sistance away - it appears to be clear to the ped that I'm still a distance away, so there's no panicked jump either way, but heard well enough for them to turn and see where I am. That said, on the canal I'd be ringing it every 5 seconds which would just drive me up the wall*

    *I don't ride on the canal. Virtually ever. I get annoyed with peds, other cyclists, and myself, doing it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Dave
    Member

    Why he couldn't have just passed her on the empty ped side, I don't know

    Without caring to comment on the incident as a whole, one reason not to do this is that it is illegal to pass pedestrians on the ped side, even if it's empty.

    It's equivalent to asking why a motorist, stuck behind someone walking in the road, didn't just overtake by driving along the pavement.

    That doesn't mean either motorist or cyclist would be entitled to run someone over, but I can have empathy with the general position for sure.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. Uberuce
    Member

    I do think 'pillock' is the most parsimonious explanation, though.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. Dave
    Member

    Oh aye. If I caught someone trying to clip me I doubt I'd be able to restrain myself. I might even break the NiceWayCode and make a Gesture Likely To Bring The Race of Cyclists Into Disrepute (TM)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    I thought pedestrians were allowed to walk on the bike lane? That is my understanding of MMW, we are not to stray to ped side but they can drift to us. if that is the case then the guy deserves all flames. Many other options available to those with a flexible mind. He could have dismounted and pushed his bike around the ped either on ped side or grass side if available. If grass side available he could have cycled on it around the ped given he had mountain bike. if my original assertion is correct that Peds can walk on non ped side then he has no defence. His name is still provisionally Richard in my book, could be they were a divorcing couple and he was extracting his revenge on being cuckolded by cycling slowly behind his ex ringing his bell.

    Not nice

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. allebong
    Member

    "it is illegal to pass pedestrians on the ped side, even if it's empty"

    Well in that case I'm a filthy degenerate lawbreaker based on what I done on the Broomhouse path yesterday afternoon. It must have been the weather that brought out all the peds, at least 3/4 on the bike side. I had to overtake quite a few by going onto the ped side. Judge me on that if you must. Anyway based on past experience if I rang my bell I'd either get totally ignored or given a really dirty look like I should just overtake anyway.


    "It's equivalent to asking why a motorist, stuck behind someone walking in the road, didn't just overtake by driving along the pavement"

    I appreciate the point your trying to make here but it's not that equivalent. Pavements are physically separate from roads, neither cars nor bikes (with few exceptions) belong there and that's that. I can't say I've ever seen a ped walking down the middle of the road in say Gorgie/Dalry. Legally they might be perfectly in the right by doing so but I'm picturing a ped holding up a mile of traffic while there's two pavements on each side. What can the traffic (including bikes) do in that situation, given they can only legally be on the road? To be clear I'm not talking about peds holding up traffic for half a second at a crossing, I'm imagining the behaviour I see on shared use paths, so think peds walking very slowly down the middle of a main road even though there's a pavement there. The traffic according to the strict interpretation of the law then has no choice but to sit crawling at 1mph behind the ped.

    Meanwhile the Broomhouse path 'segregation' consists of....a white painted line. Again, pavements are physically distinct, with their own crossings for peds and the like. To be equivalent to the pavement/road scenario you'd have to have a stonking great kerb down the middle to make it clear one side is for peds only and the other is although in theory also legal for peds it is designated as being for bikes. Much as with roads vs pavements if I then came across a ped on that side I wouldn't run them down for being on 'my side' but it would be much harder to make a case that it's acceptable as they have the legal right to be wherever they want.

    Anyway, to mix this up a bit more, here's a shot I took yesterday along the Broomhouse path:

    Note that despite the presence of the shared use sign the white line has vanished. What happens here? Complete random mix of bikes and peds going into and out of the tram stop?

    Posted 11 years ago #

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