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"duff scheme with poor pedestrian and cycle provision" South Queensferry

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  1. acsimpson
    Member

    On the way home I thought I would go in search of the 6th chicane. I couldn't find any sign of it but not far north of Scotstoun Ave I came across this:

    I'm not sure what they are planning longer term but at the moment it looks like they have built a 5m wide 100m long dead end. Of course unless they are claiming that the paths are the buildings curtilage then there is no legal basis to stop you cycling on the footpaths. (In fact footpath is the legal designation for what they are calling cycle path).

    Posted 2 months ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

  3. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    I note from Google Maps this infra has somewhat grandiosely been dubbed the "Killiecrankie Path" (by the developers?); seems apt - the battle was a rather Pyrrhic victory also

    Posted 2 months ago #
  4. fiefster
    Member

    @acsimpson I think the 6th chicane was at the NE corner of the bus turning park. This may have been removed when they blocked off the road access. You would have passed it on your venture north. You can see it here:

    [url=https://www.google.com/maps/place/Packard+Street,+South+Queensferry/@55.9830929,-3.381922,28m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sPackard+Way!3m4!1s0x4887cf8bbf74c8fd:0xe8de1b9c93447746!8m2!3d55.9827555!4d-3.3803315]null

    I note that someone has plonked a grit bin on the desire line circumventing chicane No.3 in a northward direction. Detour round chicane No.1 getting a bit squidgy after the rain and caused my rear wheel to spin and step out.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  5. acsimpson
    Member

    I had forgotten that one. It has indeed been removed making the wide path north an unobstructed route to nowhere.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  6. HankChief
    Member

    I missed a call from a manager at Cala today, but their voicemail did say that a some chicanes are being removed tomorrow (the southern ones I presume) to bring them into compliance with the RCC.

    Sounds promising, although that does leave us with the ones CEC allowed in the RCC.

    Anyone travelling past during the next few days who can provide photos of the current/amended set up?

    I will call Cala back on Monday.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  7. acsimpson
    Member

    I'll be passing tonight and try to get photos of the current 5 for reference.

    I'll then not be passed again until Tuesday at the earliest.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  8. HankChief
    Member

    Progress! The chicanes by the quiet road have been removed as promised in the voicemail.

    This still leaves the tight Southern most ones with the muddy bypass & the Northern ones near the bus turning area.

    Tweet with pictures

    Posted 2 months ago #
  9. Frenchy
    Member

    @HankChief - don't suppose you have the "General Arrangement" diagrams for other parts of the site? There's one in the response to the FOI you link to in the last page, but it doesn't have the southern end of the path in it.

    Cala say that the current barrier layout matches that of the RCC, but I'd be (slightly) surprised if the council asked for one, and only one, of the chicanes to be installed so that you meet the right hand barrier first.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  10. HankChief
    Member

    I don't, sorry.

    But I have just spoken with the Cala Manager and asked him to look into 2 things about the Southern Chicanes:

    1. What were they trying to achieve? No road crossings nearby etc

    2. What approvals they have?

    I did point out that as they were on a 6.08% slope (per their plans) they were especially difficult to negotiate.

    He's going to come back to me...

    Posted 2 months ago #
  11. HankChief
    Member

    Whoop whoop.

    Just had a call from CALA and the Southern most chicanes are coming out :-)

    Good work all.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    Hope Cala, CEC Planning etc. LEARN something from this!

    ‘We’ (esp HC) just shouldn’t have to do all this!!!

    Posted 2 months ago #
  13. HankChief
    Member

    My contact at CALA has definitely learnt from this as it wasn't something he had come across before.

    I have also suggested that they approach the local cycling community (e.g. Spokes) for guidance on future developments.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    Is there any chance of ‘interested parties’ sitting down and working out why all this happened?

    Apart from voluntary time and effort, Developer and CEC staff (paid) time PLUS the waste of time and materials installing, moving and removing.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  15. Frenchy
    Member

    Is there any chance of ‘interested parties’ sitting down and working out why all this happened?

    Just when I thought the Fringe was over.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  16. neddie
    Member

    How could they not have known about it?

    The very first post in this thread:

    Architecture SQ (@ArchitectureSQ)
    16/09/2013 13:08
    @SpokesLothian This is a duff scheme with poor pedestrian and cycle provision, and Route 1 is downgraded by it

    Posted 2 months ago #
  17. HankChief
    Member

    The next challenge is Lord Rosebery's gate on Dalmeny Main Street

    https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1034409347915362304?s=19

    Posted 2 months ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I wonder if it may be easier to deal with 'Lord Rosebery' under his real name: Mr Neil Primrose?

    Posted 2 months ago #
  19. Beano
    Member

    Well done to all who persevered on keeping on at CALA and the others. Was nice to see the chicanes removed this morning (i even sat up, took my hands off the handle bars and clapped a few times :-))

    Posted 2 months ago #
  20. crowriver
    Member

    Well done! Now looking forward to my next trip out by bike across the Forth...

    Posted 2 months ago #
  21. Fionam
    Member

    Woo hoo... The horrible southern chicane on the slope in Dalmeny was gone this morning. Thankyou so much @hankchief and others. What a difference, cheered me up in the rain!
    (and good to see you at the bike marking on Saturday too)

    Posted 2 months ago #
  22. paddyirish
    Member

    Seconded - thanks @Hankchief, @acsimpson and co.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  23. acsimpson
    Member

    Other than going through a FOI can anyone tell me if there is a way to get the approved road layouts for the Dalmeny Park site?

    The latest I can see on the planning portal is the original applicaiton (13/03310/AMC)

    Having trawled through it I can't find any plans which correspond to what they have built. For instance the central path is shown as continuous for it's full length (ie it takes priority over the road by the bus circle).

    There is a document simply called report which is the Development Management Sub Committee's report. It includes a rather dismissive paragraph:
    "There will be a small extension of Scotstoun Avenue between the site entrance and the central boulevard that cyclists will have to share with other vehicles. It is not practical to have a segregated route at this point due to the requirements for bus traffic. Traffic calming measures will be introduced on Scotstoun Avenue by the site entrance that will reduce speeds and help to avoid conflict between cyclists and other road users."

    This description doesn't seem to tie in with what has been built at all. Instead the route from SA to the core path entails a narrow shared use pavement leading to a dangerous road crossing.

    The new path they are building on the periphery of the site also appears to have the path directly adjacent to the road which is contrary to the published plans.

    What hope is there for local democracy when plans which have been published, consulted on and then approved despite objections are torn up and replaced with something which no-one has seen.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. Frenchy
    Member

    That's the right application.

    On the previous page, @HankChief has a link to the result of an FoI request. One of the attachments is a much more detailed plan of the bus turning area, showing that the central path is not continuous. The date on this is April 2013, though, whilst the plans on the planning portal are from later in 2013.

    Worth asking the planning department for copies of the plans - they may respond more quickly than going via an FoI (maybe do an FoI anyway).

    Also worth raising it with a councillor, and asking them to ensure that this is checked as part of the adoption process.

    Be prepared to have to chase up...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. acsimpson
    Member

    Thanks. It sounds like it's just a broken system them. They go through all the consultation and planning process and then the roads consent team come along and bulldozer through a car-centric solution. Perhaps the original planners really did think their solution would work but if so why didn't they fight for it. If zebra crossing are safe enough to use on George Street then surely there should be no safety concerns in a housing estate with at most a few hundred car movements a day.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  26. crowriver
    Member

    I think that's maybe the effect of feedback from bus operators? Could also just be the usual motor-centric Traffic Flow cognitive bias in the planning department...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. bax
    Member

    Traffic calming measures will be introduced on Scotstoun Avenue by the site entrance that will reduce speeds and help to avoid conflict between cyclists and other road users

    well there's still a pish wee temp tarmac bump on the main drag which i assume is the fuclrum of these fine words ?

    ah no, "side entrance", well that didn't happen then, unless they mean the red brick strip, which can't be described as traffic calming, no siree sir, god bless you, naw

    Posted 1 month ago #

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