CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
No. 26 over 20mph by the Magnificent Octopus, on Flickr
No. 26 London Road Journey speed profile remarkably similar to the No. 22 on Leith Walk. Reinforces the utter spuriousness of Lothian Buses' "argument" about 20 zones.
Anyone else got some bus data for other city centre / residential area routes? Please don't make me go on a bus to collect my own!
Kaputnik, you should let LB have the data and your analysis. They are a pretty reasonable bus compny nd might help them see the bigger picture mor accurately?
I observed a variation on the "bikes faster than public transport" theme yesterday. I was on the bus heading southwards out of town over the bridges. As we had turned into North Bridge at the former GPO, I noticed a woman who was obviously out for a run and heading in the same direction. We passed and re-passed each other several times. Eventually, the bus made it to Cameron Toll, ahead of the runner - but only just.
On the other hand, for speedy transport into town, nothing beats the 0755 from Curriehill. It gets to Haymarket in just 10 minutes.
Just got this a bit late for last night's CILT dinner at which I could have fed the topic of how they viewed 20mph zones in to debate with a number of bus operators. It would though, be useful to have these journey plots as an anonymised set of data to put to the wider bus operating community without specifically pointing the finger at Lothian, and indeed some CCE subscribers might be able to input plots from other operators' services in Edinburgh and other towns.
Next week I plan to attend Coach & Bus live and they have a safety themed seminar, such detail might make an interesting topic BUT I'd rather it was a) a general detail and b) we had a few routes from First and Stagecoach (and Colin Craig - Citybus in Glasgow) in Glasgow & Edinburgh.
DM me of use my e-mail address, so I can see how to take this forward.
On the other hand, for speedy transport into town, nothing beats the 0755 from Curriehill. It gets to Haymarket in just 10 minutes.
I quite often pass what I assume is the 8am run of the X44, but I haven't tried to take on the 7:30 as far as I know.
Since I can get from Currie to Leith in 25 minutes, it might be a close run thing?
Oh yes, boyfriend can run to Leith in 35 minutes or something (he's a reasonably fast runner) while the bus takes an hour.
IF (and it is a big if) I remember, I'll get some data from the number 4 bus this evening.
Reinforces the utter spuriousness of Lothian Buses' "argument" about 20 zones.
I think there's a missing datum in the analysis. Although we've shown that buses rarely exceed 20mph at all, and certainly don't achieve an average of 20mph, it's being measured in an environment in which other vehicles routinely exceed 20mph. I therefore think it's premature to suppose that a large scale reduction in all-vehicle speeds would have no effect on bus speeds, except in the areas where buses lanes are in operation and effective.
What needs to be done next—and we're getting towards that—is to compare vehicle speeds on the same routes. Reducing average vehicle speeds would probably lead to greater road capacity, and this might either reduce transit times through efficiency or increase transit times through oversupply of vehicles.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-24296653
" Police patrolling a new speed limit outside a Scottish Borders primary pulled over a school bus
... Traffic police set up a hand-held speed trap near the school gates on Monday. The first vehicle they pulled over for allegedly breaking the limit was a bus carrying pupils on its way to nearby Peebles High School."
Find it quite easy to beat the 5.00pm Stagecoach 55 from Queensferry Street out to Ferry Toll. It stop starts it's way out on Queensferry Road for bus stops and tail backs. It's usually disgorging passengers when I'm leaving Ferry Toll with the bike on the car so I'm at least 5 mins ahead. In winter it's even slower. Spookily in the morning it's definetly faster by bus.
John does that include the detail that you have to geo a slower and less convenient route than the A90?
OK, I have a .gpx file. Who wants it and how do I get it to you?
I want to delete the ride from Strava asap, I've played havoc with all the segments, oops. Next time I'll use my Garmin... there are 9 segments on the route, I have temporary QOMs in 7 of them, 2nd in one and 3rd in one. I'm going to have a quick look at how the bus compares with the men for some, at least.
OK, for Craiglockart Avenue hill, the bus is slower than 92 cyclists... and for the "Craiglockart to Fairmile killer" there are 6 cyclists faster (this segment does have a set of traffic lights in it...)
Enough.
"OK, I have a .gpx file. Who wants it and how do I get it to you?
I want to delete the ride from Strava asap"
Presume you can download to a computer (then delete from Strava).
Anyone wanting it can PM you if you are willing to email it(?)
Yes, the file is on my computer (and has now been deleted from Strava).
I'm happy to email it to anyone who wants it, just PM me.
I'll take a copy if you don't mind - you can mail me at contact@mccraw.co.uk
(Spot who has hosting with an effective junk mail filter)
@Dave - done.
Dave, I've taken the liberty of emailing you a .gpx for a journey on the no. 11 into town today.
Average speed was 6pm. There was a slowish jogger who was matching us for much of the journey. Really busy bus, lots of people getting on and off so lots of stopped time.
I work in the West End and have the benefits of not only a parking space but my start / end times for work are completely in my control.
When I lived in Leith it would take me 20 minutes to car or bike to the West End.
Now that I live in Dalmeny, it's 40 minutes to bike in and 35 minutes back.
Door to door, the train is 25 minutes.
On a good day I can drive it in 20 minutes or less. On a not so good day, it's probably 40 minutes.
So, all in all, commuting by bike is slower for me (and I need to factor in ~15 minutes for shower / change in the morning).
But I cycle so that I can live to be 100, not to beat the commuters :D
Brilliant data - any of this available in a simple to redact form - I'm off to Coach & Bus Live on Wednesday.....and first seminar is on safe operations.
Of course in Charlie Evans day the buses all had centre doors so the delays at bus stops waiting for folk to get off were eliminated....
No. 4 over 20mph by the Magnificent Octopus, on Flickr
Fimm's No.4 ride out of town. Difference here is that it starts on the edge of the "centre" and heads out the way. However it's still spending most of its journey below 25mph and a lot of time slowing / stopping. At 6PM, this is a bit after worst of the traffic.
I think CB's file was taking the data points too far apart (every 10s or so), which resulted in some hugely spurious readings, such as 55mph down Bruntsfield Place!
Tulyar - help yourself to my 3 graphs if they're of use to you.
I have time tomorrow (today) to do some more routes. I'm thinking that riding routes end-to-end is probably not the best strategy however I'm not sure where the loosely defined 'city centre' starts/ends. Is there a map to go along with the 20mph proposal?
If I recall correctly, 'main' streets would also be excluded so I'll try and pick some of the more 'residential' routes to ride.
Perhaps try a 5.
Does 'city centre' but not Princes Street and includes Nicholson Street and Morningside Road which are both 'main' roads and also 'shopping streets' which are due to be included in 20mph plans.
If anyone has the technical know-how to run the right analysis, it would appear that it might be possible to get access to the Bus Tracker API.
Details here:
It would just tell you the timetable. Their API doesn't expose the actual location of the buses in realtime, which is what we require.
Royal Infirmary to Silverknowes by a single bus journey involves ca. 50 minutes on a no. 8 (to Muirhouse, then a ten minute walk) or ca. 1h 10min on a 21 (then 10 min walk from DMains). Bike takes 10 mins to don my attire (don't ask) 35 mins riding then 15 mins shower at home. So total time is comparable to no.8 and quicker than the 21. And cheaper and healthier than both, of course. And at the end I smell of cheap shower gel, not diesel fumes...
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