Edinburgh South: Day of Action « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Edinburgh South: Day of Action

(57 posts)

Started 11 years ago by SRD
Latest reply from Focus

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Wilmington's Cow
Member

"Every person driving into an ASL after the light changes is an offence, every driver reaching the 10% threshold is an offence, every bald tyre, blown light, empty screen wash bottle."

Actually, thinking about this... Every single commute there will be at least one, but usually many more, drivers go past me breaking the speed limit. Most ASLs have cars stopped in them. I'll pass a number of cars parked on pavements that will have been driven there. Cars will be stranded in hatched areas. And you'll always see people on the phone. And not one single time on my commute, not once, have I seen the police dealing with any of those drivers.

I'd go for a (very) conservative estimate of 5 drivers each commute breaking the law. So ten a day, 50 a week, roughly 1750 a year (as I don't work every week!). That's just me, commuting 4 miles each way, 40 minutes worth of riding. 1750, a conservative estimate of the law being broken. That would only need 195 cyclists to record those 340,000 offences in the year.

Again, not saying that cyclists shouldn't be targetted, but it's a fallacy to believe that motorists are being hammered left, right and centre because we all, every day, see law breaking going unpunished.

Posted 11 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

"To me it's a bit like saying (outrage example of scale coming) we should only focus on violent Bank Robbery, and forget all those trivial bike thefts where no one was really affected."

Whereas the South Police statement of action was, "We should only focus on the trivial bike thefts and not violent bank robbery..." If you're going to have a day of action on the roads, target it at all road users...

(and I would break out drink driving as something specific that can be targeted on its own given the damage, destruction and death it causes - drink drivers should be hung by their gonads as far as I'm concerned)

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

I've no problem with errant cyclists being brought to book at all. But the way the South police guys have gone about it is pandering to that Daily Wail mentality.

I completely agree with this - the way this is presented in the tweets is reinforcing an "us and them" mentality which is so damaging - it's precisely what gives non-cycling drivers a sense of entitlement... bringing about road tax nonsense etc etc... I am also a driver - I am usually on a bike, but I exist in the intersection - this sort of rhetoric does exactly what WC said much better than I could.

Posted 11 years ago #
steveo
Member

You don't, you enforce/investigate all regardless of scale.

And there in is the problem for me, if this a "South Side day of action" where all road offences were enforced with a visible police presence treat all road users equally there would be no grounds for any one to complain. But they've vocally allowed poor driving to continue whilst "dealing" with another group.

Targeted seat belt or speeding days don't apply to cyclists for obvious reasons but if they did I'd expect cyclists to be targeted as much as drivers.

Posted 11 years ago #
gibbo
Member

Actually, thinking about this... Every single commute there will be at least one, but usually many more, drivers go past me breaking the speed limit.

What I find particularly galling is the survey that showed 75% of vehicles in the Southside breaking the speed limit. (After the 20mph limit was introduced.)

This is right on the doorstep of St Leonard's police station. Where are the tweets about days of action against speeding?

It reminds me of Chief Wiggum in the Simpsons, whose response to most crime is to blame "rowdy teens" and cancel the prom.

Posted 11 years ago #
Kim
Member

Why not have your say on the Edinburgh Policing Plan 2014-17 survey. There is an online survey that aims to give people in Edinburgh the opportunity to shape policing in the Capital in the future.

Posted 11 years ago #
BikeFan
Member

Any input from CyclePC - do you still pop in every so often?

Posted 11 years ago #
ianfieldhouse
Member

@gibbo This is right on the doorstep of St Leonard's police station. Where are the tweets about days of action against speeding?

Yesterday traffic wardens were out at the foot of Whitehouse Loan with a speed gun. They just appeared to be carrying out a speed survey however. I noticed a lot of panicked braking from motorist coming down the hill.

Posted 11 years ago #
neddie
Member

@gibbo

There's a reason Chief Wiggum is the way he is... ;)

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"
EdinburghCityPolice (@EdinCityPolice)
16/10/2013 14:51
@Fraser1874 Could be worse - could be taking the backlash from the cycling community like our colleagues @EdinSouthPolice!

"

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"
Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)
18/10/2013 20:46
@EdinCityPolice Yes - it's a shame @EdinSouthPolice took the line it did http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369
Need dialogue - they're hiding!
@Fraser1874

"

Posted 11 years ago #
urchaidh
Member

Police Scotland responded to an FOI request (I was bored) about this 'day of action' with the following:

During the day of action 13 conditional offer tickets where issued mainly for failing to stop at a red lights and breach of no entry signs.

12 of these offers were for pedal cycles and 1 was for a motorcar.

All 12 of the cyclists were issued with conditional offer tickets as it was a day of action and no warnings were given.

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

@urchaidh - welcome!

"issued with conditional offer tickets as it was a day of action and no warnings were given"

So that's a fine (unless they choose to fight it in court).

So "day of action" is punitive rather than educational(?)

Fortnight of action might be more productive -

http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11593

Posted 11 years ago #
Dave
Member

They must have been very selective to find 12 riders to go through a light, but only one motor. Stand at the junction of Royal Mile and the Bridges and there are riders who go through (mainly on the green man), but two or three motors on every phase of the lights...

They should be capped at equal numbers of tickets by mode. Even though that vastly favours motorists who jump lights (due to the modal split).

Posted 11 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

They must have been very selective

Well they were targetting cyclists, were they not?

Posted 11 years ago #
ARobComp
Member

regarding the ASL convo in this thread.
I tweeted Lothian buses as I've seen a worrying trend amongst some of their drivers to start creeping into the ASZ when the lights are on red, this is pretty frustrating when you're filtering up to it (I know blah blah don;t etc) as the bus ends up way forward.

Anyway lothain buses said thanks we'll let the drivers know this isn't cool, but a bus driver came back to me with:
@AlexDRobertson Its not an offence if its the only way to safely stop your vehicle after the lights change ...

Do they genuinely believe that this happens? DOes anyone really think that a bus can enter the ASZ on green and stop before the White line by the red?

Posted 11 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Alex, I'd agree that there's a big (and ovbious) difference in a bus (or any other vehicle) slowing down to a stop once lights are going red/amber, and the more usual practice of coming to a halt in the correct place behind the line and then creeping forward. Using the former to justify the latter doesn't cut the mustard.

Buses go so slowly in town anyway it's not as if they are having to pull up from 40mph at the drop of a hat.

Posted 11 years ago #
threefromleith
Member

Been noting what they do during my bus rides on a Monday to/from work. Sadly, more buses are driving up to lights that are on red as they approach and stopping in the ASLs. It's not a sudden light-change catching them out - they're choosing to drive into them to stop. I've tried letting Lothian know via Twitter but have had no response.

Posted 11 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

They're advertising another day of action on inconsiderate and dangerous cyclists. Sigh.

Maybe we should ask to meet them and find out why the focus?

I suspect that it reflects what they're hearing from the community councils. Which is why I encouraged folk to put themselves forward to serve on these.

Posted 11 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

If the No. 21 bus at South Gyle Access this mornign hadn't been accelerating up to an Amber light, he wouldn't have come to a stop half-way across the pedestrian crossing! I'll see how it looks from the eye-on-the-hat later on.

Posted 11 years ago #
amir
Member

The whole targeting of cyclists thing has never really be based on evidence-based prioritisation. Like much of politics/policy for that matter ...

Posted 11 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

Radio Scotland had a go at this again this morning.

Not once were this year's bike fatalities mentioned. How soon the media forgets.

Bike debates follow a similar line to the ownership of dogs and are a chance fro the majority to vent there frustration at another group.

Of course one pro-bike caller claimed to always cycle on the pavement as roads where she was were dangerous. That guaranteed a backlash!

Retired police spokesman said that bikes could further enrage already angry drivers as they struggle to work etc...

Posted 11 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Retired police spokesman said that bikes could further enrage already angry drivers as they struggle to work

Well, there's elements of the legal system that seem to be citing that as "just cause" in a number of recent cases.

I've never found sitting on my bum pressing a button now and again much of a struggle.

Posted 11 years ago #
DaveC
Member

@ Kaputnik, complain to Lothian Buses, they have cameras on the buses as we all know and can access the video later on today to review the driver's performance.

Posted 11 years ago #
Focus
Member

@ kaputnik

I can virtually save you the bother by proxy! 3 days ago:

The lights were red as I was coming round the corner to the crossing

Here comes a #22

Still coming, easily slow enough to stop behind the line

Still moving

Still moving. But he'll at least stop before obscuring the crossing light, won't he?

Nope!

And it's a full 8 seconds between stopping and the lights changing

He had over 30 seconds to be aware he was approaching a red light.

Posted 11 years ago #
fimm
Member

@focus I hope you've sent that to Lothian Buses...

Posted 11 years ago #
Focus
Member

Not as yet - only just got round to transferring the video from the camera.

Posted 11 years ago #