I have to agree with stiltskin and LaidBack above. I don't understand why they have given priority to the lesser route and despite being in theory better for me (coming on the path from Craigleith) I would still stop to let the cyclist on the main path pass...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
NEPN, Craigleith Junction upgrade. Have your say
(223 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Surely the main traffic line is the route from Granton and Silverknowes to Roseburn.
A council which was a bit more serious and professional about such things (rather than one that had a bit of money to spend on the junction and then wondered what they might spend it on), would of course have surveyed the traffic levels already and would know which routes had heavier use and where conflict points were, relative speeds of intersections etc...
Posted 10 years ago # -
"...lesser route...
Presumably it's precisely because of that presumption that the attempt was made to highlight the Maidencraig/Groathill channel. Didn't someone on here manage to get to the consultation/viewing and see something about concerns of pedestrians using the junction as a cut-through?
Has anyone noticed much difference in behaviour of people assuming they can steam blithely through the MMW/NMW junction without looking since it was repainted as a pretend five-way give-way?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've got a guy on camera smoking and texting while rolling into an ASL on red.
I believe that's known as "the trifecta".
Posted 10 years ago # -
When improvements were first muted I mistakenly thought we would see resurfacing of the broken bits.
Too common sense for our council though instead we have speed bump bricks and give ways that are a waste of money and likely to be cause of an accident.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Those gates:
Oddly, despite the perceived need to slow cyclists down, they've added a nice smooth link between Maidencraig Crescent and the path entrance, ironically allowing cyclists to travel over the threshold in more comfort and therefore at greater speed (potentially)! Still, that's the nicest bit of the whole exercise :-)
On a side note, the futility of driving a car in a city was made very plain today. Halfway along Craigcrook Road, I was passed by a black people carrier. As I came off the NEPN at Russell Road and waited till the traffic had died down I was passed by the very same car! So unless it had stopped off somewhere, I'd easily beaten it to Russell Road without even riding fast :-)
Posted 10 years ago # -
There were some "council looking" guys at that junction earlier this afternoon.
("Council looking" = wearing yellow hi-viz jackets, not doing any actual work.)
I'm not sure what, if anything, they're changing.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago # -
Were the gates at the Maidencraig side closed over which still leaves a gap more than an average bicycle length between them) when you were there chdot? They were when I rode through yesterday. Not sure if that's intended to be their semi-permanent state, i.e. to further discourage motor vehicle use or if they were simply making the holes for the gates to fix into when in that position.
The holes had certainly been made, though why they didn't make the holes at the same time as laying the tarmac they were going to make the holes in...
Posted 10 years ago # -
One of the bricks in the Roseburn-side rumble strip appears to have come loose (assuming after all the rain yesterday). Top quality workmanship!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I was just about to add that. Maybe (in line with their signature facility) they should rename it the Quality Brick C***-up!
Posted 9 years ago # -
They ripped up all the bricks on the barnton golf course path just a few weeks after installing them, and relaid them.
Perhaps in these troubling times it's simply an imaginative way to preserve job security?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I noticed the loose brick this morning on the Roseburn side. Not sure about their longevity, they are a sort of fired brick, but they do slow you down more than the re-laid granite cobbles at the golf courses. Presumably there's asnagging period to attend to this. This sunny afternoon I intend to take an alternative route through Dalmeny Estate ratherrthan the diversion. Beyond the 'big hoose' what's the coastal path like all the way to S. Queensferry? I tought it makes a pleasant change to the usual shlep up to Dalmeny.
Posted 9 years ago # -
There are two options, after turning right at the house you will come to a tarmac fork, take the left one (with a cattle grid immediately, climbing upwards) and that brings you out on the B road ready to turn right and descend Hawes Brae, suitable for road bikes.
If your bike is more robust you can proceed right along the coast but it's not surfaced. Fine on a hybrid though, hardly MTB territory.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Take it easy and it's fine on a tourer sort of bike too, just take it slow and steer around all the ruts in the road caused by estate Landrover / tractor traffic.
If you have a CX bike it can be a fun, albeit bumpy, blast through.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'd say it's *almost* MTB territory - didn't enjoy it on my hybrid at all (although the 90psi gators probably didn't help).
Posted 9 years ago # -
I am aware of another fall this morning on the 'non slip surface'.
This was predicted a while ago -
"Around two thirds of the "bonded surfacing in buff" has been laid, from the Groathill end. I seriously hope that's not the finished product because even in the dry it looks slippy! I rode up it today and didn't fancy the thought of it in the wet, let alone when icy."
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11382&page=3#post-148504
There was an update -
"I spoke to the council engineer this evening on the A90. He confirmed that the new beige surface at Craigleith is anti slip. I mentioned that it looks shiney and slippery and he did confirm looking at it himself it does look shiny and slippery but assured me that it is anti slip. He also said that the contractors had calculated the amount needed but this fell short and as the anti slip surface was made to order, as it is not a standard colour, the contractors have had to order more of this new non standard beige colour anti slip surface and this is holding up the progression of the works."
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11382&page=4#post-148989
Then -
"Those who use the Roseburn Path where it passes between Maidencraig Cresc and S Groathill Ave will have noticed the recent relandscaping in the 'V' of the junction there, and the huge white painted path that has been marked between these two streets. Please BEWARE. My son has turned off at this junction into Maidencraig Cresc every school day for the past 4 years - yesterday he did so on the newly painted surface. There had been a rain shower, and his bike parted company from him, leaving him with torn trousers, a bloody knee, a cut wrist and loss of feeling in his fingers.
This looks like another case of road design that looks great on paper but didn't consult actual users. And as for placing speed bumps on a cycle path... sigh.
I have complained to the Council."
Posted 9 years ago # -
It looks to me as if there is at least one loose brick on one of the speed bumps on the east side of this junction - who do we report this to/ complain to? I could complain about the "non-slip" surface at the same time.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Try tweeting @West_team or emailing westteam@edinburgh.gov.uk or even calling 0131 529 7440*. I contacted the council about the A90 path and its mulch covering. I folowed up about it in a call last night at 16:50, and asked for an update as their response was confusing.
* I don't know is this gets you to the west team only or general City of Edinburgh Council.
Posted 9 years ago # -
We require (I assume) expensive, custom-mixed, custom-coloured slippy non-slip surfaces for a few metres of path why?
We'll never get anywhere if every time a little bit of work needs done, someone at the council has a brainwave and invents something new and fancy which all involves time and cost. If they want to mark out a path then paint or studs or whatever is normal, cheap and readily available should be used. They could even sonsider some of that tarmac with coloured chips, apart from the fact it's hard to tell from regular tarmac...
It doesn't matter how "anti slip" the council thinks this coating is, water pools up in the surface and pools of water are slippy. That's why most anti-slip surfaces for paths are rough or pebbled. And add in leafmulch?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks, DaveC, will email them (as I'm not a Twitter user).
Posted 9 years ago # -
Lets see what the Cooncil make of this:
Hello,
Earlier in the year I emailed Edinburgh council about the state of the NEPN entrance from Boswall Place. Paul Mathews replied saying that it was scheduled to be maintained in May 2014. Well May has come and gone and I see no difference to the path, could I enquire about when any work is scheduled to take place please?
I should remind you of my original complaint:
‘The NEPN at the Boswal Place entrance has a huge depression on the north side of the path to the west of the exit to Boswal Place. Water collects there forcing all users to move to a narrow and bumpy potholed section on the south side of the path when it rains. The depression straddles the path border and collects larger stones so no one enters the puddle. As the path is uneven there cyclists have to be wary of hitting the edges of the tarmac and pedestrians and cyclist are forced through a narrowing of the path. The path further down was cleared and the drain was unblocked under Granton Road on the NEPN. Could this be done to the Baswal entrance please?’
This section could really do with some maintenance very soon please. I accept you have other priorities and budget problems due to central Gov’t funding cuts to councils, but you have just put a nice slippery surface at the Craigleith Junction for cyclists to slide over on, and that junction appeared quite acceptable before the money spend on it. Incidentally, I was told by a council employee that the new surface was a bespoke colour! Lovely that cyclists and pedestrians are held in such high regard that the council sees fit to spend money on fancy bespoke colours but can we please have the basic surfaces repaired before we go splashing out on bespoke infrastructure?
Kindest regards,
Dave C
Posted 9 years ago # -
News just in -
"
We are expecting a the replacement surface to be laid later this week early next week.
Very disappointing, and surprising, given that the original product has been widely used on cycle facilities across London, etc. For future schemes we will specify the highest friction surface available that is normally used on the approaches to signalised crossings / junctions.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
I wonder what the cost of the replacement surface is going to be - also to come from the cycling budget, we must presume. No wonder they find it so easy to waste huge amounts of rate-payers' money!
The old junction layout was put together at almost no cost and was not associated with significant numbers of accidents (AFAIK).
Can't they just reinstate it?
Posted 9 years ago # -
...we will specify the highest friction surface available that is normally used on the approaches to signalised crossings / junctions
Why? Why? Why?
If you fall off on a high friction surface (like the ones made out of sharp sea shells) you're just going to end up with serious skin damage.
Why can't they just use ordinary, plain old, cheap, and easy to lay/maintain Tarmac?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I still don't understand this desire to take a perfectly decent stretch of shared use path and blow lots of money to make it a hazard to cyclists!
I'd still like to know when they'll do something about the pea-gravel which is now all over the path, making it even more hazardous than the slippery paint already does.
What a complete waste of money. All they had to do to improve it was to cut back a few trees to improve the sightlines.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I took a phone call from Alan Tintal after lunch time. He reasures me that the vendors of the surface at Craigleith are relacing it with the most grippy surface. He didn't indicate who was paying for it.
I pointed out the pee gravel all over the path and he said he wasn't aware of it, and would investigate. So folks, don't report it and they'll assume its just dandy!
On the Boswall Ter access to the NEPN, they have been aware of this issue for over 12 months and appologies that its late but they have been trialing a new cage drainage system at Kings Park?? and are going to install two trenches with these cages in. They then place a membrane over it and cover with soil and grass. They have been experimenting with gravel for soak aways and are not happy with the outcomes, hence the new cages for water to drain into and soak away from. Apparently the stones just fill up with silt and then block up after a year and a half.
I pointed out also the problems with the Barnton path and the slate?? chips being washed onto the path, and the contractors just sweeping them to the side of the path, leaving empty dykes in some places and an overflow of chips in other places.
So I feel a little more positive now. They do know about some of the problems but I figure these jobs are on a long list of all the councils infrastructure maintainance and the moral I feel is if you see a problem, Report it!, get your mates to Report it, and follow up if you don't receive a satisfactory reply
Posted 9 years ago # -
I should point out that my prediction above, quoted by chdot, came partially true for myself a few days back. I turned off from Roseburn direction towards Maidencraig Crescent on the road bike and felt my front wheel begin to slide. I caught it as it was just a minor slip but I've never experienced that there at any time before except when there was ice. And this was just a moderately damp surface.
Now it seems, as I wondered, that we've been treated as guinea pigs for a surface that has actually proved more dangerous than helpful! Changing from the original tarmac offered no benefits to anyone and it seemed to me to be used to supposedly highlight waht had suddenly been chosen as the 'priority route' (i.e. Maidencraig to Groathill). But rather than simply rely on the (pointless) give way markings, somebody had the 'bright idea' to create a new desire line by using this buff surface.
The only way the the new replacement surface will be of benefit is if it reduces slipping under icy conditions. Otherwise it will be a further waste of money for whoever foots the bill.
I certainly don't appreciate being used as an involuntary lab rat for somebody's safety experiments.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Inspired by DaveC, I have sent a long email about lots of faults with NEPN on my commute off to the West team...
"Craigleith Junction:
I am a regular user of this junction on the North Edinburgh Path Network, and I am very concerned about the state it has been left in after the recent "improvements". In addition, there are several other parts on the nearby network which are in urgent need of sorting out. I commute along the path daily from Ravelston Dykes to the Red Bridge (on foot or by bike) and this is a list of concerns:Craigleith Junction
- gravel all over the paths from the drainage ditches. This is a slip hazard for bikes and pedestrians.
- new "anti-slip" beige coating appears to be anything but (having nearly fallen off whilst turning to go off to Sainsbury's)
- brick rumble strips - a brick has come loose already from the Roseburn path arm of the junction. In addition, the strips are very hard to see, especially in poor light and will be a serious hazard when leaves are lying or when it is dark.
- vegetation - I understand a key aim of the improvements was to improve visibility across the junction in all directions. However, rough vegetation including self-seeded saplings is growing unhindered around the junction, making the western side (between the Roseburn and Silverknowes arms) visibility very poor. This part of the junction has not had "give way" lines painted and I repeatedly see near misses between people who are going from Roseburn to Drylaw and people coming from Silverknowes to Roseburn.
- brick pit on the narrow pointed section of the central reservation - it is filled with gravel, presumably as a drain, and yet there is a large (new, I think) puddle just inches away on the Roseburn/Drylaw axis. In addition, the pit is very hard to see and is a danger to cyclists or pedestrians who could trip into it.
- new gates are not very easy to see in low light. They have small reflectors but this depends on the quality of the bike light (and the angle of approach of course)Elsewhere:
- The path under the Queensferry Road has a very large (wide and deep) puddle to the north east side of it. This obscures the (steep) edge of the tarmac, and also narrows the path at a point where the lighting is poor (it is very dark under there even in daylight)
- the west side of the tarmac has a sudden "kink" meaning that cyclists who are cycling in a straight line suddenly have to veer sideways (again putting them into the path of the people avoiding the puddle on the other side). I have even witnessed cyclists cycling off the edge by mistake due to a moment's inattention. Depending on the skill of the cyclist this could then cause an accident / injury.
- the ramp up to Ravelston Dykes was recently improved with a section of tarmac over the worst of the roots, however the rest of the path remains very uneven and dangerous as it throws your wheels askew when going up or down. In addition I reported an issue to Clarence last December about missing sections of (wooden) railings on the slope, and uprights which were no longer anchored in the ground, but despite assurances that it was on a List of Things To Do, nothing has been done.
- The wide open section of the path through Drylaw has some large puddles that form after any amount of rain. In several areas these puddles regularly cover the whole path, meaning that pedestrians have to get wet feet, or find a path to the side that isn't too muddy. Equally, given the volume of cyclists along the path, any narrowing is going to cause frustration and delays (more so for pedestrians who tend to be the ones who give way).I appreciate that some of these may already be on a to-do list, but I am also aware that it's quite possible that people just never get around to reporting things (e.g. last winter several street lamps on the path were out for weeks, and yet the day I reported them they were fixed, suggesting that everyone was in a "someone else will report it" frame of mind!)"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks for this. I am particularly grateful you brought to attention the state of the path under Queensferry Road, being one of the inattentive cyclist who in the past missed the "kink" in the path and badly hurt myself!
Posted 9 years ago #
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