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Scotland to debate 'strict liability' civil law change

(44 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by tarmac jockey
  • Latest reply from Darkerside

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Realistically SL is such a minor issue - compared with (for instance) smoking in pubs and minimum pricing for alcohol - that it's a real shame that more people in all parties (particularly the one currently in power at Holyrood) don't just do it.

    The government/Transport Scotland wants "evidence". One problem is that most countries have had SL for so long that 'before and after' stats are next to meaningless.

    If there's no evidence that it makes things 'much better', presumably there's no evidence that it makes things 'worse' - so why not just do something else that is 'in line with the rest of Europe' (apart from England)??

    It's easy to assume (rightly or wrongly) that there is 'a fear of the motorist'.

    I'm sure most people 'here' feel that is an unnecessarily timid attitude.

    Obviously the Greens take a different view but it's far from clear if any of the other parties do/would - either for good reasons or even 'just to be different from the SNP'.

    The SNP current in charge in Scotland likes roads and bridges and really doesn't understand 'active travel' - it's like an add-on only of interest to a noisy minority.

    There is little understanding of health/social/economic/societal/etc. benefits. Of course that view is not confined to the SNP, but ahead of the 2014 vote it's disappointing that walking/cycling (etc.) is not seized on as a way of demonstrating what might be different in an independent Scotland.

    Of course it may be that they have already decided it would be a 'voter turnoff' - but I don't think Salmond/Swinney/Brown etc. think it's important enough to think about.

    Whether Scotland votes yes or no, I suspect that after the next Holyrood election no party will have an overall majority.

    Which means that it's still important to interest all MSPs and parties (and potential candidates) that cycling, walking, SpaceForPeople are important issues - in many policy areas not just 'transport'.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Lynne & Ian McNicoll (@andrewcyclist)
    29/10/2013 22:06
    v interesting to watch stricter liability debate in @ScotParl today. gd to see @AlisonJohnstone @JimEadie_msp @kdugdalemsp @SarahBoyackMSP

    "
    "

    David Brennan (@magnatom)
    29/10/2013 22:07
    @andrewcyclist @JimEadie_msp @kdugdalemsp @SarahBoyackMSP ..and well done @AlisonJohnstone on securing the debate. Need more on cycling.

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. sallyhinch
    Member

    Couldn't help noticing Keith Brown's response to Kezia Dugdale when she said she'd be too scared to cycle up Easter road:

    "One of the officials from Transport Scotland who is sitting at the back of the chamber regularly cycles up and down Easter Road and feels that it is a safe road to cycle. Such things are subjective and depend on people’s experiences and perceptions of the environment around them, but other people feel that the road is safe in the circumstances."

    Or in other words 'man up and take the lane, woman.'

    I don't know the road myself but Google streetview shows a lot of angled parking which means drivers reversing out into the lane. Can't say I'd fancy cycling down there myself either

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. wangi
    Member

    Down (N) Easter Rd - fine; the bottom half (N) of Easter Rd - fine. Cycling up (S) the top half of Easter Rd less so - you're limited speed wise by the climb and the road width is constricted by build outs. This results in lots of close passes.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. slowcoach
    Member

    according to http://www.crashmap.co.uk, Easter Road has had about 19 reported injury accidents involving pedal cyclist casualties in the latest 3 years 2010-2012 including 6 at the Dalmeny Street junction alone. The unnamed TS official may feel it is safe to cycle there but have they checked with the LA in charge?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    Following from the thread on unreasonable comments, this one takes the biscuit I reckon:
    ---

    David Gardiner ‏@davidjhgardiner 29 Oct
    Strict liability in favour of cyclists is basically communism. Riding in an unprotected vehicle should qualify as contributory negligence.

    ---

    It would appear this man is a parliamentary researcher for the Conservative MSPs group, which is rather worrying. I suspect a fair few commenters on the EEN web site are bitter Conservative or UKIP supporters.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "
    The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott): The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S4M-07934, in the name of Alison Johnstone, on strict liability. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

    Motion debated,

    That the Parliament believes that the number of fatalities and injuries to pedestrians and cyclists on Scotland’s roads, including in the Lothian region, is unacceptably high; recognises that the Scottish Government has funded a number of national cycle safety initiatives; notes that versions of a strict liability rule exist in the civil law of many European countries; notes that a number of walking and cycling organisations support the introduction of such a law in Scotland; understands that a petition by Cycle Law Scotland on this topic has secured nearly 5,000 signatures; considers that a stricter liability rule could have positive benefits for the safety of more vulnerable road users as part of a package of measures, and would welcome further debate on this proposal.

    "

    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=8582&mode=html#iob_77676

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. algo
    Member

    @crowriver - it is unfortunate that Laidback's namesake is such an eejit - let us be sure not to confuse the two! He's also tweeted

    ---

    David Gardiner @davidjhgardiner 29 Oct
    .@dhothersall @Hyvast Let this go through and, before you know it, anyone who gives a cyclist a little go-faster nudge will be behind bars.

    --

    which is verging on criminal I reckon

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. LaidBack
    Member

    100% moronic comment from that 'no relation' eejit.

    Just stirring up hatred for the sake of it. Has he nothing better to do?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. PS
    Member

    Has he nothing better to do?

    If he's a parliamentary researcher for the Conservative MSPs group, then I'd suggest no. ;o)

    If he fits the profile of most parliamentary resarchers I have seen, he will be a young guy with a heightened interest in the "game of politics" (being opinionated, debating, winding folk up, enjoying notoriety and getting a reaction) but with no experience of the wider world and how badly those sort of behaviours look to the people that politicians' policies actually affect.

    And politicians wonder why we've lost faith in the "political classes"...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. Darkerside
    Member

    Fun lunchtime spent summarising what was said, based on the transcription chdot linked. Hopefully not too dry...

    http://www.darkerside.org/2013/10/strict-liability-debate-in-scottish-parliament/

    Alison Johnstone, Kezia Dugdale, Jim Eadier, Patrick Harvie and John Lamont come off well, with Jim and John probably being the best.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. algo
    Member

    @Darkerside - thanks a lot for taking the time to write this up - nicely written too.

    (PS It's Jim Eadie by the way - don't think there's an r - just thought I'd mention it)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. Focus
    Member

    "David Gardiner @davidjhgardiner 29 Oct
    .@dhothersall @Hyvast Let this go through and, before you know it, anyone who gives a cyclist a little go-faster nudge will be behind bars.
    "

    To use a popular internet phrase... Wow. Just wow.

    I know who I'd like to see behind bars, handlebars, when someone gives him a go-faster nudge.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. Darkerside
    Member

    Ta algo - my typo

    Posted 11 years ago #

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