CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
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It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
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The obvious questions that arise – or rather, the questions that should be asked, are:
- What is the evidence that wearing hi-viz is a sensible precaution, and in what circumstances?
- What are the consequences of use of hi-viz for those who don’t wear it?
And finally,
- In a culture which accepts hi-viz wearing as normal and desirable, what is the effect on the safety and well-being of cyclists and pedestrians generally?
"
Anecdote - I have cycled all my life and in that time hi-viz use has increased a great deal and I have not noticed any increase in SMIDSY behaviour from motorists though I don't wear it myself. In fact if anything there has been a decrease, possibly because there are more cyclists about or possibly because I have more confidence nowadays to ride further out from the kerb.
It's an interesting subject. I usually wear hi-viz when it's dark, but a lot of my commute is on unlit back road. Not sure if I would wear it if I could get door to door on a cycle path.
But the interesting thing from a visibility point of view is that on those cycle paths from my (cyclists) point of view, pedestrians, and joggers are mostly almost invisible at not very great distances. You do see joggers with hi viz, and sometimes blinky lights, and you see them a long time before you do the peds in dark clothing.
Of course to mitigate that I ride slower when it's dark so that I have more reaction time when someone comes out of the murk. I'm not saying pedestrians/joggers should wear hi-viz, just that the ones that do are more visible (to me).
I was following my b/f on his bike in the dark the other day. He was wearing a hi-vis gillet with a very small, light green rucksack on top. Under the street lights, the hi-vis and the rucksack looked very similar in colour. From any distance the first thing you saw of him and his bike was the nice bright rear light.
Just for clarity (pun unintended) are we talking about hi-viz as in bright yellow or orange; or hi-viz as in reflectives?
Reflectives = brilliant in the dark; hi-viz = a bit meh, if you really want the colour to be seen wear white, honestly in the dark it's better than yellow or orange.
During the day I don't think there's any doubt that hi-viz colour is actually more noticeable. Okay, there are folk who will say there IS doubt, but the amount I've photographed commuting cyclists in this city in a gazillion locations, it's the bright colour cyclists that really stand out. In certain circumstances the colour can merge into the background, but in the majority of cases, in daylight, I think it's better.
That said, I don't wear it because it's going to make no difference if someone isn't looking at you at all; I've had SMIDSY both while wearing and while not wearing; and I use my road positioning to make myself visible which means the close encounters I have fall into two camps, the first being the person who doesn't look at all, and the person who does see me but takes a risk, so again the bright colours make no difference to that driver.
But reflectives at night, personally I think you'd be daft not to.
You do see joggers with hi viz, and sometimes blinky lights, and you see them a long time before you do the peds in dark clothing.
Are you seeing the hi-viz or are you seeing the reflectives? There is an important difference. You can have reflective stuff in all sorts of colours. I've even seen black.
Edit- WC sneaked in with more or less the same comment!
Black reflective tape is what I've got on my black forks in a barber shop spiral. Invisible unless someone shines a light at it (although in truth, so muddy that it probably does little for me).
I also put reflective tape on the plastic soles of my road shoes for the recumbent a couple of years ago. Lasted for ages.
Not hi-viz though.
Sensible precaution - cycling home along the canal and people are like ghosts...
Even walking on streets there are times I notice when I am behind the wheel if someone is wearing dark clothes and steps out between parked cars to cross where there ain't a crossing the orange street lights do little to make them visible. I have reflective panels on my water proof as does Tigermoth[1] but still reckon one of the little over the shoulder round the waist scotch tape strip things would be a good idea...
Yeah the canal at night is a bit of a bother at times, I usually use the NASA method and watch for them occluding the landing lights up the sides of the path. A touch of reflectives would be nice but i generally just take it easy to deal with the "issue".
"I also put reflective tape on the plastic soles of my road shoes for the recumbent a couple of years ago"
That's a superb idea!
I don't really understand why cyclists don't take all available and sensible precautions. I have a flashing red light on my seat post and one on my helmet & I have a blinky white light up front. ( I commute on roads so don't need the light to see but to be seen) On my back I have an oh so fashionable luminous orange backpack with reflective bands across it and on my head a rather lurid lime green helmet. I know that despite all of my precautions motorists will still cut me up and give me problems but I'd rather know that i've done everything possible to avoid the incident.
Are you seeing the hi-viz or are you seeing the reflectives?
Dark clothing - invisible.
Hi-viz - I can see you at reasonable distance now.
Reflective - I saw you ages ago.
But yes, not really that much of an issue for me, I just ride slower to account for 'ninjas'.
"I know that despite all of my precautions motorists will still cut me up and give me problems but I'd rather know that i've done everything possible to avoid the incident."
But this is the thing, when is it actually 'enough'? Do you have reflective tape on your helmet? Do you have spoke lights that can be seen from the side? You can get reflective tyres now as well.... The point being, there's still more you could be doing, so you're still not taking all available and sensible precautions.
I've got good lights front and rear (the front one especially with excellent side cut outs for side visibuility), with back-up lights that blink. Reflectives on my troos, shoes and jacket. Reflectives on my saddlebag. And a reflector on the rear mudguard.
And I'd still argue the case that under streetlights the orange of the backback on the bag is neither here nor there, but the reflectives are, most certainly, a good, practical, visibile, sensible precaution.
(strange, though, that there's never an argument that all cars should be bright orange or yellow so that they're more visible).
I personally wear everything I can to be seen and often look daft in photos, but the social problem is difficult and surely the strict liability law has a lot to do with it.
You might argue that wearing hi-viz just reinforces the idea that cyclists who don't wear proper cycling gear are somehow irresponsible, and that cycling is inheritently dangerous and you need to take full responsibility for your own safety.... it could be argued in an incident with a car that if hi-viz isn't worn then the cyclist is partially to blame - despite the fact that it may be a complete red herring.... (not wishing to draw too many parallels with recent cases and helmets)
@WC as part of sensible I include not having to spend large sums of money. Your set up sounds sensible and yes you could always do more but a motorist would be hard pressed to explain (if they were ever required to do so of course) how they didn't see you. That all said if I had the resources Id be buying these revolights.com
My feeling in London was that a flash of yellow said 'cyclist' and was probably helpful to drivers who had a lot to process. Also it meant that when they said they hadn't seen you you could laugh in their faces. Up here, yellow says 'works for the council' and I don't want to give people something to aim at.
My understanding of the research is that something that is both moving and reflective is most likely to be noticed at night, so those dorky reflective trouser straps are probably your best bet.
Thats reasuring, I gave up looking "hip" some time back and went for nice metal trouser clips with reflective strips on them.
"so those dorky reflective trouser straps are probably your best bet"
I think this is probably true.
I usually increase amount of reflective stuff on murky days.
If it's actually raining a lot I put on trousers - black with good reflective panels.
"so those dorky reflective trouser straps are probably your best bet"
The Young hip and trendy things wear Slap Straps these days!! :D
I was going to add a second part to my story, but I had to do some work...
We met some people in a pub. When we were all getting ready to go home, b/f put on his hi vis and his helmet, and I put on my dark coat and my wooly hat.
"Well, K is all ready to cycle home," said someone, "but what about F?"
"Ah, K likes to dress like a cyclist, I don't..." I said.
I agree about reflectors in the dark, actually. I sometimes stick a reflective ankle band on when I'm going about town, and for the long commute I have some home-made reflective bands (which I've forgotten to dig out recently - I just got them out yesterday and put them with all the other lights).
"That all said if I had the resources Id be buying these revolights.com"
Yeah, saw those a little while ago (blogger Amsterdamize has a set) and want want want!
""so those dorky reflective trouser straps are probably your best bet"
I think this is probably true."
Me too. That's what my shoes do (little reflective bit at the top of the heel).
Often tempted with this idea:
I don't really understand why cyclists don't take all available and sensible precautions.
The problem is that 'all available' precautions would make for a pretty miserable existence, and the 'sensible' qualifier is in the eye of the beholder.
Take the image above as an example. Pretending to be a policeman is an available precaution for all cyclists and there's at least an argument that it would be sensible (I don't believe in dressing up like a policeman. But you might well be asking whether any of this year's deceased cyclists have died if dressed as policemen?)
Ditto luminous trousers. Plenty of cyclists in bright jackets, not so many wearing yellow trousers. Yet they are both available and (arguably) sensible.
You only describe yourself as having one light. Why not two, three, or ten front lights? They are available, and (arguably) sensible.
Etc etc
If you really want to be safe and take all sensible precautions, the most sensible would be to stop cycling. From the precautions needed alone it's plainly a stupid thing to do if your primary concern is avoiding any kind of injury.
Once you've decided to cycle you've adopted some degree of risk and the question now is what is a proportionate response to the risk.
I reckon bright lights, front and back, one steady and one blinking for when I'm on road. I switch off the brightest blinkers when I get to the paths. Light coloured top - flat grey with reflective piping for general wear, hi viz yellow with reflective stripes for very dark, foggy, murky days. Other than that, assertive (almost aggressive) positioning.
The bike is daubed in reflective tape (red to rear, amber to sides, and white down the front of both forks).
Front and rear reflectors, and steady lights always on.
In the dark I add a rear slow pulse thing. In really crap weather I'll turn on the rear magicshine antisocial foglight, but generally only when other cars also have their foglights on.
I wear black, generally, with the single exception of gloves, which tend to be hi/viz and reflective for signalling purposes.
An idea for a blog post I had was to do front/back/side photos of a number of cyclists in their usual dark weather getup, just for comparison and idea sharing. Didn't really go any further than my mind though.
Reflective trouser bands aren't at all dorky, once you get in the habit of using them! ;-)
Lidl and Aldi regularly sell a pack of 4 3M Scotchlite velcro bands with 4 red LEDs on them. If it's daylight when I head out, I just keep them in a pocket to avoid the dorky look and once it's dark enough to need them, nobody can see enough of you to say you look like a dork. Simples! ;-)
They tend to look that much more visible, I think, because unlike most other reflectives, they are moving relative to the rest of you and your bike, i.e. up and down or in a circle depending on your viewpoint. They also tend to be more at car headlight height.
You can never have too much visibility at night.
On my way home from work several years ago, I was passing the junction just a few metres from my house when a car came from the adjoining road, failing to stop at the give way lines and ploughed into the back of me, sending me rolling metres along the road.
I had a reflective jacket, reflective ankle bands, a helmet cover with relective areas, lights fore and aft (2 of each) and spoke reflectors, and still he hit me. Had I used toe clips rather than clipless pedals, I would have been under his car along with my bike.
He was very quick to pay for the repairs though. Why?
Because he was L&B Police's top surgeon!!! It also turned out he was a family friend! He never was, and never would become, a friend of mine however.
Slap straps have an issue with being fun for kids to play with and they often disappear round the house.
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