CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Civil disobedience?

(53 posts)

12

  1. Dave
    Member

    I seem to remember that I suggested voting down people who don't do enough for cycling at the ballot box, and punishing the SNP by voting down the referendum, but that proved controversial even on CCE...

    I've had an idea for a long time for a website that would target politicians on an individual basis by identifying and highlighting the tactical votes most likely to punish them at the relevant elections.

    As the number of riders grows you might expect there to be a tangible 'cycling vote' that could push its weight around.

    Ideally you'd need someone at each polling station highlighting who the "cyclists' choice" is though, and I can just see it getting terribly messy...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. minus six
    Member

    inconveniencing others, but not too much

    I've been ambling round Neukölln and Kreuzberg for a week and that pretty much describes the pavement cycling scene here.

    Plenty don't bother with lights, either. But there are serious numbers -- enough that they can't be victimised in classic EEN style.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    http://road.cc/content/news/99048-die-planned-transport-london-headquarters-save-our-cyclists’-petition-hits-over

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. fimm
    Member

    Yep. Let's see how many people they get...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Instography
    Member

    After another three deaths today (pedestrians) I suspect rather a lot.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    3000+

    (Prediction)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. Charterhall
    Member

    The trams may be an appealing target for a protest, they are high profile, they are a pet project ofthe Council, and Joe Public hates them as much as we do. Next time a Council leader plans a photo opportunity with them we could try to organise a flashmob of cyclists to hijack the event ?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. gembo
    Member

    I would avoid being anti tram now, that is so behind the curve, everyone is going to love them soon even in snooty old edinburgh

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    You're so off the straight.

    'everyone is going to love them soon' was the refrain several years ago on ENews comments - at the time when the Jenny Dawe mantra was 'on time, on budget '.

    I expect mass indifference - until the first car is 'nudged'.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. gembo
    Member

    Nope, complete 180 degree shift, as happened in Manchester and Edinburgh, once they start. If you recall there has been some delay so two years ago the mantra was started when there was a false dawn.

    Come the real dawn I want to be on the first tram, I am mad keen.

    There will be accidents as there used to be when we had trams before.

    Parliament roundly derided suddenly became mass tourist attraction, everyone trying to use it for meetings etc

    People mostly just do what they always have done. Almost as if they run on tramlines. But in this instance they will be queueing round the block.

    Happy to be proved wrong, just bored with all the moaning

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. Nelly
    Member

    I'm with gembo on this, and I don't think Joe public hates the trams, just bored with the roadworks.

    Im still waiting on the Wall-E style segways to become reality.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. Charterhall
    Member

    My point though is that any Council photcalls with the trams are ripe for hijacking now

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. PS
    Member

    Pretty much everywhere has hated tramworks, but loved the trams that resulted.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. Instography
    Member

    Hijacking photocalls is simply not how civil disobedience works. Hijacking photocells is a protest or a demonstration. Civil disobedience is what it says - a polite, non-violent refusal to obey rules that are only there to disadvantage one group for the benefit of another. This disobedience bit of it is key.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. Charterhall
    Member

    Apologies, I thought this was a debate on how to draw attention to the woeful provision for cyclists in this country. Seems that you are only prepared to consider ideas within narrow limits. Fine, I'll keep out of it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    Might be the time to post this -

    "
    If, by “Cyclist safety” we mean what cyclists can do to other road users, we get a useful indication that cyclists are much less likely than other road users to be involved in incidents where others get hurt or killed.

    "

    http://www.rdrf.org.uk/2013/11/15/if-we-want-safer-roads-for-cycling-we-have-to-change-how-we-measure-road-safety/

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. fimm
    Member

    "Civil disobedience is what it says - a polite, non-violent refusal to obey rules that are only there to disadvantage one group for the benefit of another."

    My apologies, I didn't know this (though it is obvious now I see it written down). My aim in starting the thread was more a discussion along the lines that Charterhall suggests.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. russellelly
    Member

    The London 'die-in' that chdot linked to is really interesting - https://www.facebook.com/events/568751353179586. Firstly, it lets people express their anger (people on bikes in London have a right to be very very angry) and it's not organised by a mainstream organisation (such as LCC or CTC). By doing something big and disruptive (remember, infrastructure/drivers have disrupted the families of the victims lives in unimaginable ways) they will get media attention. Obviously there's a risk of getting the wrong type of attention, but I think it's worth that risk.

    I'd love for a similar event in Edinburgh (Haymarket would seem an ideal place - rather protest now than after a fatality, right?). Doing it simultaneously would be great, but the mood in this thread doesn't seem too positive (really surprising to me).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Kim
    Member

    I put out a tweet this morning asking if people thought we should have die-ins across Scotland, following this picture

    There has been quite a positive response, anyone else up for it?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. fimm
    Member

    Yes, I'd be up for it.
    I better start using/following twitter again... (I have two accounts, just don't go there very much)
    New thread?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "... but the mood in this thread doesn't seem too positive (really surprising to me)."

    People have different opinions, summed up by this:

    "there's a risk of getting the wrong type of attention, but I think it's worth that risk."

    Whereas I don't, but that's my opinion, it's not right or wrong. It means I personally wouldn't take part in a die-in, but wouldn't argue against the rights of others to do so if they wish.

    The world is just a great big onion.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "
    @comadad: Stop the Killing: Die-In/Vigil at TfL HQ, 1700-1830 Friday, 29 November 2013 @highburyonfoot @jon_events https://t.co/0T2jnTi6dP

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. fimm
    Member

    I rather liked this quote, from a woman called Hetty Bower who I learned about on the BBC's Been and Gone page:

    " "We may not win by protesting," Bower once said. "But if we don't protest we will lose." "

    Posted 11 years ago #

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