CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Rubbish Driving AND Cycling (aka cyclist almost squashed)

(82 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from Murun Buchstansangur

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  1. Closest I’ve ever come to seeing another cyclist squashed today. The cyclist was a bit of a muppet, and the truck driver didn’t help. We were heading through the Meadows, truck stopped at a red light slightly in the bike lane. I was thinking ‘I wouldn’t ride up there’ as we approached, but lo and behold the fixed wheel rider in front does ride up there just as the lights turn green. The truck actually moves right to come out of the bike lane, but this, it turns out (and as I thought was happening) is to get the swing to turn left into Marchmont Road (without indicating). He reaches the junction to turn just as the cyclist is drawing level with the front of the cab.

    Fortunately the truck was going reasonably slowly and so the brakes were effective as the rider appears in front. It’s only after the cyclist has carried on (with only the merest of swerves) that the indicator on the truck flashes once. All on video so need to check that tonight.

    One of those combination of factors. The bike lane does encourage that kind of manoeuvre, but frankly he looked like a very experienced cyclist (not a hipster fixie, he absolutely blasted past me on the Innocent earlier, in full length lycra leggings displaying cyclist legs) that I'd have expected to anticipate traffic a little better; at the same time the truck moving right did look like he was coming out of the lane possibly having spotted the cyclist, before swinging left without indicating. But still (whether this is seen as victim blaming or not) my very very first thought on seeing the truck ahead and thinking I’d get there before the lights turned green was ‘I’ll wait behind the truck’. Both were in the wrong (in my opinion), only one was going to get squashed.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. steveo
    Member

    Fixie man can't tell trucker is going to turn unless he indicates. Probably not the smartest move but trucker really should have been indicating especially when he needs to move out to turn.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. Absolutely. I still personally wouldn't have gone up the inside.

    The video will be going to the truck company.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. PS
    Member

    a very experienced cyclist ... that I'd have expected to anticipate traffic a little better

    Being a very experienced (or very fit) cyclist does not necessarily translate into urban street smarts. Not sure if that's due to the mentality of the super-keen racing cyclists (less risk averse than the average Joe?), the ability to go fast meaning that they *have* to go fast at every opportunity (similar to those 4-wheeled fellows), or that common roadracer's complaint about triathletes that they're fit and strong but don't have a clue about how to behave in company.

    [I think I may have tarred plenty of innocent people with that particular brush.]

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. He did at least stop at the red lights (which is why I kept catching him up, he had much better legs than I!).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. DaveC
    Member

    I always remember what was printed on the vehicle docs of the Army's fleet PLEASE DRIVE DEFENSIVELY (no doubt Smudge will correct me on the exact wording). I took this to mean, stay back, observe, back off if required, take time to take stock. Not to rush in, attack, ignore nearby events.

    As such I do as WC advocates, I stay behind Large vehicles, no matter what they are or are not indicating they intend to do. I do filter up past <4 cars to an ASL but anything longer or larger, or possibly with all round views reduced by load of cab, I stay behind. Its simply not worth the few seconds you gain!

    Sounds like this cyclists could do with a private showing of your commute video log to see how nearly he became a casualty.

    I have in the past warned other cyclists as they attempted to filter up the inside of buses ad lorries as the HGV waited at the white line! I don't always receive a thankful response.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. wingpig
    Member

    I've a not-yet-uploaded clip from a month or so back of a cyclist attempting to go up the left-hand-side of a big truck on Melville Terrace, whilst was doing the swing-right-before-turn-left thing, a crucil difference being that the truck had been indicating throughout.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I always remember what was printed on the vehicle docs of the Army's fleet PLEASE DRIVE DEFENSIVELY... I took this to mean, stay back, observe, back off if required, take time to take stock. Not to rush in, attack, ignore nearby events.

    I take it to mean drive in a tracked, camouflage vehicle with a load of armed squaddies in the back ;)

    Back OT, I often thought that examples would be followed if one rider didn't go up the inside of a turning vehicle that the one behind might also consider it unsafe. However it doesn't seem to be the case, had someone do a very close pass on my inside this morning on Slateford Road at top of Roberston Avenue to get to the front up the side of some vans.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Being a very experienced (or very fit) cyclist does not necessarily translate into urban street smarts.

    This is part of the point I made recently (on another forum far, far away) in response to the incidents in London. So much of our whole urban riding technique is based around 'making progress', which for some people takes priority over everything else.

    The truck driver not using the indicators while simultaneously moving out of the cycle lane is giving the completely opposite message to a cyclist. However, the cyclist should also know better than to undertake unless that truck was stationary and there was good reason to undertake and not overtake.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @PS: "the mentality of the super-keen racing cyclists (less risk averse than the average Joe?), the ability to go fast meaning that they *have* to go fast at every opportunity"

    "A bit of high-intensity mixed with a lot of moderate and low intensity training leads to fitness without injury or overtraining". Joe Friel.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. PS
    Member

    @Cyclingmollie Those three suppositions of mine were intended to be separate scenarios (hence my disclaimer ;o) ). Some of the best racing cyclists I know are very careful in traffic and have very good awareness and road sense.

    Oh, and I should make clear that someone who looks like a racing cyclist is not necessarily a racing cyclist. They may just be very fit. Appearances can be deceptive.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @PS I was challenging the second one - you're spot on about triathletes :)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. PS
    Member

    @Cyclingmollie The second one was more a comment on human nature in general - nothing to do with racing cyclists per se. Basic impatience without thinking the consequences through.

    [bugbear] The same kind of thing that leads idiots to stand right next to the baggage carrousels at airports, thereby obscuring and blocking it for others. If they stood 5 yards back then all passengers would have a clear view of the carrousel and could step forward to collect their bags unimpeded. [/bugbear]

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. Greenroofer
    Member

    @PS That's a bugbear of mine too!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @Arellcat "making progress" is emphasised during driving lessons and shouldn't be. I was taught that I should be doing 30mph in town. It's sort of building impatience in from the ground up.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. PS
    Member

    @Cyclingmollie Very good point. Speed limits have become institutionalised targets.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @PS Maybe unrealistic service manager deadlines are the real cause of many accidents.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. PS
    Member

    @Cyclingmollie That's probably it. ;o)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. Sounds to me like the cyclist didn't do anything 'wrong' but should have been more aware.

    Most cyclists will naturally feel/assume that kind of infrastructure (cycle lane) keeps them safe, its experience that teaches us otherwise.

    Sounds like the driver did everything wrong!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. MeepMeep
    Member

    With this thread I can't get away from feeling "if we don't help ourselves stay safe on the roads, nobody else is going to".

    Welcome back, WC.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  21. I think BE has summed it up perfectly (the only thing I'd say is that not being aware if you have the experience, is probably doing something 'wrong'). I need to add the video to this thread later tonight and it might make it more obvious who was doing what compared to my 'at the moment' view - might be I saw it entirely differently to how it actually happened!

    *waves at MeepMeep*

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. steveo
    Member

    I think different peoples "spidy sense" is triggered by different things.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. Here we go, video. I'm a little too far back to show just how incredibly close this was. And looking again, arguable I shouldn't have gone up the inside of the SUV (though I was clear of the front earlier...).

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. sallyhinch
    Member

    That was some terrible driving pure and simple. If you're driving something that big and that dangerous on a city's streets it should be up to you to make sure that you're not going to hit anyone. Regardless of what other road users are doing, perfectly legally, around you.

    Look at it another way - if a pedestrian had been crossing the road the truck had turned into, would we have blamed them for crossing if nobody was indicating left? Probably not, and pedestrian would have had equal right of way as the cyclist there.

    The driver was terribly lucky not to have hit that bike. I hope their employer takes action on that video.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  25. Stickman
    Member

    That was close.

    Another reminder to stay away from lorries near junctions.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  26. russellelly
    Member

    The driver is completely in the wrong. Can't see any other way of looking at it. The fact that the cyclist could have held back on the possibility the driver was being an idiot is to take defensive cycling to the next level (and would be victim blaming had there been a victim - thank God there wasn't).

    Mirror signal manoeuvre - the order isn't optional.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  27. skotl
    Member

    Agree. The broken white lines are parallel to the cycle lane, and the cycle lane did not have any give way lines at the junction.

    So, the bike could reasonably expect that they had right of way all the way along the cycle lane (because they did!), and the truck should only have crossed the broken white line when it was safe to do so. And it's the truck driver's responsibility to verify that it is safe.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  28. gembo
    Member

    I hope that if the driver was indicating whilst stationary that the cyclist would have held back?

    However the driver was not indicating and indeed only put his indicator on afrpter his brake lights which looks quite like an admission of guilt.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  29. I'd have held back, but looks like it's just me. Tuning is, there's always a chance someone will do something stupid, trucks have massive blind spots, and it was just before a junction. Bt looks like I'm on my own on that one.

    Both actually had right of way, who had priority is a matter of debate. I do believe the truck driver was primarily to blame, but if you're lying under the front of a truck does it matter that technically you were in the right?

    Sadly I don't think I've got the company name on the truck (and experience is that the police will do precisely nothing with the video).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  30. Dave
    Member

    In a world where the police were remotely interested in road safety, that driver would be rapidly hauled over the coals. There's absolutely no excuse for cutting across a lane without signalling, in rush hour, especially if you're a professional driver with that extra responsibility not to kill anyone.

    If I was insuring that company I'd also be very interested in that footage, since it significantly increases the insured risk if you know that drivers are going around without bothering to use their indicators.

    Sadly as we all know, such footage isn't of the slightest interest unless someone actually dies (when everyone would suddenly fall over themselves to crucify the driver, police included).

    Posted 11 years ago #

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