Well that's me fined then...
Do wearable ones work? Like my shoe covers are reflective front and back...
I also don't have a back light affixed to my bike all the time preferring my messenger bag mount for ease of carriage and bike changes.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
PSCO's given new powers to fine those without reflectors...
(36 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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I failed to put on a none of the above option on the poll. Sad face.
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Posted 11 years ago # -
I read this yesterday and couldn't tell if it applied to Scotland.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Do wearable ones work? Like my shoe covers are reflective front and back...
If you mean 'do they work' as in do they perform exactly the same important function as pedal reflectors, then yes, it's incredibly obvious that they do.
If you mean 'do they work' as in will it stop you possibly being fined for not having pedal reflectors, despite however much other reflectives and lights you have....why do I think the answer might be no?
Posted 11 years ago # -
The Brompton is legal (well apart from one of the pedal reflectors fell off and I can't work out how to fix it back on again).
The road bike is 100% illegal, as in, it has no reflectors at all. I suspect that it is much more visible from the front at least, as it has a much more powerful light. I also wear reflective bands on my ankles on the road bike which are probably more visible then my pedal reflectors.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Fining those with more than one person on a one-person bike? Is this really such an issue that it needs a specific mention in legislation? And does a one-person bike with a child seat (or even two!) fall foul of this?
Posted 11 years ago # -
My rear reflector is built into my rear dynamo light so I'm always lit front and rear and reflecting on the back. I have a small mountain of removed front reflectors that I could attach if the need arose, although I don't think it ever will.
I doubt the pedal reflectors thing will ever be enforced. Or at least no more often than a 20mph limit.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Note that this is also on the same piece of legislation as illegal firearms and other super bad crimes. Interesting.
I really feel that the only people that lose here are people who cycle a lot in cities. eg. Myself. I have lots of bikes that do not comply with this (racing/cx/other) yet I'd suggest that I'm also an experienced rider who rides almost exclusively on well lit roads (I can't think of one road I go on that I would not be completely visible on via street lights) However as a central town cyclist I porbably run the risk of being stopped and not having reflectors on my pedals and therefore fined.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm sure I saw something on Twitter that said this didn't apply to Scotland.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@ S
Can't remember wording, basically -
'Must not carry passengers unless designed to do so/having proper provision'
I.e. Kid's seat fine, long rack without back more debatable.
Posted 11 years ago # -
None of my bikes have front or rear reflectors fitted to them. Although my saddle bag has a reflector (white, threfore non-compliant).
I think I have one set of pedals with old-skool orange reflectors on them.
I guess the intention is that it targets the ninja cyclist as opposed to the sensible LED'ed up punter, but it's such a catch-all sledgehammer...
Posted 11 years ago # -
So is this "except for viewers in Scotland", then?
Posted 11 years ago # -
All my bikes are illegal, but I suspect rather heavily this law will only ever be applied to people who are guilty of the offence of Cheeking Up a Plod.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The relevant section of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill (S.142) only applies to England and Wales - plus, there are no police community support officers in Scotland.
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 require:
Each pedal to be fitted with two amber reflectors.
One rear red reflector
One front facing white reflectorAll must be fitted to the bike.
Section 24 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states:
"Not more than one person may be carried on a road on a bicycle not propelled by mechanical power unless it is constructed or adapted for the carriage of more than one person."
Pretty sure "adapted for the carriage of more than one person" covers properly fitted child seats.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I think my folder is but the others definitely aren't. My road bike doesn't have any at all.
Posted 11 years ago # -
And despite having two StVZO-compliant headlights, built-in rear light, brake light, indicators, front, side and rear reflective panels, and a bell, my velomobile is illegal because the pedals are a) clipless and reflectorless, and b) covered by bodywork.
In fact, almost any recumbent is technically illegal to ride during the hours of darkness because of the pedals, whose reflectors you wouldn't see even if they were fitted with them.
Glad to see UK law is up to speed on everything.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"... why do I think the answer might be no?"
I'm not sure given I'm not aware (anyone?) of a single person ever having been pulled over for not having pedal reflectors despite (as Morningsider points out) the relevant lighting regs having been in play since 1989.
The change in law (such as it is) is simply to allow PCSOs to deal with people breaking the exisintg law - those laws on pedal reflectors and non-adapted bikes only carrying one person have been in place for ages.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Thank you morningsider.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@arelcat surely it doesn't say the pedal reflectors have to be visible. just that they have to be fitted.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Good comment on the original article linked to above:
My issue with this piece of news is that specific laws are being passed to allow wider enforcement of a pretty pointless regulation which isn't even fully listed in the highway code. Meanwhile cyclists are being killed and injured by cars during daylight hours, in flourescent, hi-vis jackets, in cycle lanes!
All this faffing around the edges with reflector enforcement, police ticketing quotas, helmet comments and red-light running is ignoring the fact that people are hurtling around our cities in several tons of metal where they cant see clearly around them or wont look because they are too busy on the phone."Posted 11 years ago # -
@WC - agree that it's unlikely that anyone's even been pulled over (FWIW I mentioned the law about cycle reflectors to a colleague whose husband is (a) in the Police (b) a keen cyclist and (c) aspires to be/has become a bike cop and she thought that he didn't know about it) but you can be sure that when you're on the witness stand in the case seeking compensation for your injury caused by a driver who wasn't paying attention, the defence lawyer will point out your missing reflectors and ascribe the collision to that and that alone.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@ Morningsider: the CTC puts the regs slightly differently: http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations
I think there's a requirement for a new bike to be sold with front white reflector, rear red reflector and wheel reflectors, but it's not a requirement to retain the front reflector and the wheel reflectors, whereas it is a requirement to keep the rear red one.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The change in law (such as it is) is simply to allow PCSOs to deal with people breaking the exisintg law - those laws on pedal reflectors and non-adapted bikes only carrying one person have been in place for ages.
Thinking about it, as you say I don't know if anyone has ever been stopped/fined by regular police officers for not having reflectors, but that would beg the question why change the law so PCSOs can enforce it?
I have this idea that PCSOs are going to be informed they can nab people without reflectors and we'll soon see the first case where someone who is otherwise impeccably lit and visible gets fined for not having them.
Or I might be assuming the worst and everything will in fact carry on as normal. Though as Greenroofer said I'd hate to have an accident after dark and for a devious lawyer to find out my lights aren't BS-approved etc - though that's obviously been an issue all these years anyway.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Stupid law. Period.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Greenroofer - Hmmm, yes - I was wrong about the front reflector. These are not a mandatory requirement - but the pedal reflectors are, unless your bike was manufactured prior to 1 October 1985. Sorry about that - should take more time to read things.
SRD - the lighting regs are pretty clear that pedal reflectors must be visible - they state under Angle of visibility that "Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is plainly visible to the front and the reflector on the trailing edge of each pedal is plainly visible to the rear".
Posted 11 years ago # -
"the lighting regs are pretty clear that pedal reflectors must be visible - they state under Angle of visibility that "Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is plainly visible to the front and the reflector on the trailing edge of each pedal is plainly visible to the rear".
So that's no recumbents at night.
Win.
I mean 'we' had better start a campaign to change the law.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Or if you pedal with your toes pointing down then you are WRONG AND MUST BE STOPPED.
(We already knew that about recumbents..)Posted 11 years ago # -
@Insto "I have a small mountain of removed front reflectors that I could attach if the need arose, although I don't think it ever will."
I'll take one (or two) off your hands if you don't mind? My bikes are legal apart from the pedal reflectors. I have these on the Dawes as I have Shimano pedals but my Cotic has BBB pedals and they don't accommodate the reflectors. My B&M Lyt has a built in reflector but the IQ Cyo does not... :O(
Posted 11 years ago # -
Over half the bikes in the shed here are illegal for England and Wales.
I'm heading to England next week, so I'll have to try and make my chameleon street legal for there - I think I'll have to tape my old spd adaptors to them.
I'm fairly sure I've got an old rear reflector I can tape to my down tube somewhere
As for the 'bent...darn...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Since panniers obscure your rearward pedal reflector for most of its circuit, it's also an offence to ride with panniers at night - the same as if you've put something (like a bike rack!) on the back of your car where it covers up the lights and reflectors there. Alas, there's no acceptable "repeater board" arrangement for bikes :)
I guess if ticketed you'd need to go to court and argue with the magistrate that they weren't /significantly/ obstructed or whatever, but the law doesn't say "plainly visible to the rear (except if hidden three quarters of the time by luggage)" so I'm not sure it would be a valid defence.
Posted 11 years ago #
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