CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Tram Depot Entrance - Cone saga

(11 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from EdinDave

  1. HankChief
    Member

    Thought I'd share the saga I'm having with the Council/Trams about the tram depot entrance...

    As I have mentioned before the entrance to Tram depot is very wide (15m) which can make it hard to cross if you are uncertain if a vehicle is turning in or not (lack of indicators / shielded by vehicle in front) and uncertain as to what line it is going to take.

    Streetview

    I've not liked it since it has opened, but it has been made easier since the summer (having written to CEC) by 3 cones marking the out the funnel - there were previous thin bollards, but these got removed as they kept getting damaged!

    A couple of weeks ago the cones disappeared, so I wrote the council/trams again and they have since been replaced by 11 (yes eleven) cones which is just ace. And apparently they wrote a briefing to all tram staff to use the funnel - with no cones you could see the tracks where lots of different lines were taken.

    However, the response from the council is that the cones are just an interim measure before they replace the painted lines with rumble strips.

    I can't see how rumble strips will be much different from the painted lines.

    Anyone know of other examples where they work (or don't)?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. HankChief
    Member

    Well, the cones have now been removed as they have put in the rumble strips as promised.

    It's been about a month and already I've seen vehicles cutting off the corner again.

    I asked them what they were doing to monitor the situation and they came back with a slightly curt response that it was a traffic controlled roundabout so cyclists should just wait for gap in the traffic.

    They obviously haven't seen it at rush hour, when you have continuous traffic coming round and you are having to guess whether anyone is going to turn in (indicators seem to be optional).

    Is the van turning in? What about the car behind it? Would you cross?

    Tram depot entrance

    My problem with it is that it is too easy for vehicles to cut the corner and when the traffic is backed up, why would you wait when you can turn in early.

    Tram depot entrance

    I dawned on me that they should have put the vehicle route on the left of the entrance rather than the right. That way there wouldn't have been any incentive for vehicles to cut the corner and you would only have a short area of conflict.

    As it is, it just makes the junction dangerous. The traffic turning in is pretty infrequent so you get used to going straight across despite the danger. I only hope that there doesn't come I time when path is crossed with a 'corner cutter'.

    I've no idea how many lorries are still visiting the depot, but reinstating the cones would make it much safer.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    It's all about traffic flow.

    #ThisISedinburgh

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. SRD
    Moderator

    not sure its about traffic flow, but about utter obliviousness/ignorance. which is probably worse.

    perhaps a good case for a camera mounted there one rush hour, tracking the cyclists going across, vans turning etc. ? might highlight the point?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. HankChief
    Member

    Good idea. Not really sure what shift patterns they work at the depot, but assume cyclists probably peak at 7.30-8.30am.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. HankChief
    Member

    I'll use this thread to put up the other problem we're having with the Tram Depot Entrance.

    The Eastern most 'dropped' kerb is anything but dropped.

    I had previously raised this with CEC but the response was the drop crossings at the mouth of Myreton Drive have been checked and they are within construction tolerances

    To be fair, they didn't explicitly say they agreed to standard, just that they within 'construction tolerances' whatever that means.

    Armed with the standards to be achieved thanks to Tulyar here & here, we now know that 6mm or below is what we should expect to see.

    6mm is about the width of 2 * one pound coins.

    As luck would have it I had 2 coins and so I set out tonight to see how they stacked up against the kerb.

    Tram depot - dropped kerb? by HankChief, on Flickr

    Tram depot entrance by HankChief, on Flickr

    Not even close...

    It will be interesting to see why CEC accept 'construction toleranaces' rather enforcing the standards...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. Nelly
    Member

    Same at one side of South Gyle Approach, feels like a speed bump.

    Same contractors?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. HankChief
    Member

    Got a detailed response from the trams...

    0-6mm is the standard, but they have a construction tolerance of another 6mm, so 12mm total would be acceptable to them.

    They accept that this kerb it is above 12mm, but a part of it is about 12mm.

    It was picked up when they surveyed the work, but decided that as fixing it would involve digging up the road to build up the road level, which could then lead to maintenance issues if the joints failed, that they wouldn't enforce the corrective work.

    So, in summary: we have a standard, we give the contractors a bit of wiggle room and if they don't meet this, we don't enforce it.

    Doesn't send out the right message to contractors that we take adherence to standards as an essential part of the contract.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    surely they can grind down the rounded corners a few mm to get within tolerance?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. DaveC
    Member

    A bit of guerilla concereting wouldn't go a miss!

    As for the corner cutters, I'd be tempted to buy a load of these and the one night drill holes in the while rumble strip and rawl plug them in.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. EdinDave
    Member

    Interesting bit in the Councils own consultation document here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/3576/crossings_-_draft_for_consultation

    Dropped kerbs and paving
    • drop kerb should be equal on both sides and be directly in line with each other
    • The dropped kerb should be flush with the carriageway
    • (maximum 6mm rounded bullnose if absolutely essential)
    • The minimum width of the flush dropped kerb should be 1.8m
    • Recommended width 2.4m
    • The maximum gradient of the dropped kerb approach should be 1/12...

    Posted 10 years ago #

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