CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Towards the end of the month I'm going to do a 'pecha kucha' presentation at the transport forum. I'd originally intended to do my 10 myths about cycling talk - and I do still hope to do it - but want to look at pedestrian issues instead because the forum keeps saying it will discuss pedestrian issues, but they are never on the agenda.
So, could you all send me (post here/dm/maybe I'll set up a flickr group) pics of good/bad provision for pedestrians in Edinburgh?
Thanks all!
edit: flickr group: http://www.flickr.com/groups/2430656@N25/
SRD do you need photos or will Streetview do?
I'm not out and about much in daylight to take my own photos, so here are some streetviews.
Bad Provision:
1. Maybury Road at Craigs Road
Note the bus stop on the West side of the dual carriageway, but no way to safely cross the 40mph traffic. You won't find any dropped curbs and the central reservation isn't very wide, so trying to cross with a buggy or toddler(s) is not to be recommended.
It is in the ATAP for a pedestrian crossing to be installed here but not until the 2016-2020 window, but who knows if/when it will actually happen. It will probably be tied into the development of West Craigs site.
2. Clermiston Road at St John's Road
There is no pedestrian phase on the lights to allow you to cross Clermiston Road without taking your chances with traffic turning from St John's Road.
It is not like it links 2 parts of a shopping street or anything...
As mentioned previously, the Southern route across is appalling for the pedestrians and getting to the North side isn't easy and it has it's own problems.
4. Anywhere where there aren't dropped curbs at junctions. I never appreciated the difficulty this causes until I had cause to push a pram around and later held a toddlers hand and more latterly both at the same time...
It makes is considerably harder to cross where they don't exist.
Good Provision:
Can't think of any specifics, but anywhere where it is a 20mph zone is considerable more pleasant to walk around.
I live right in the middle of that set of 3 places, HankChief, so I can get photos of that lot if you can't get there in daylight. Let me know.
Are you sure about #2, though? The google street view does suggest there's no green man, but I've run across that junction many times and thought there was a green man there. Maybe I'm just timing it by reading the red lights, though.
The whole route up Morrison St from Haymarket Stn to EICC is awful for peds. Far too narrow for the volume of peds. Many junctions with barriers & priority to motor traffic/long waits at ped xings...
Particularly bad is the Morrison St/Dewar Pl/Gardiners Cres jct.
World class city my foot
"Anywhere where there aren't dropped curbs at junctions"
My elderly neighbour who has remained active (hillwalking etc) into his 90s is now reduced to walking with a zimmer frame type thing with wheels (don't know what they're called).
Our side of the street has no dropped kerbs at all. anywhere. so he can't get up or down.
appalling.
One in Morningside that I've mentioned before:
Morningside Road outside Rifkind's. The dropped kerb is quite a drop (or insurmountable cliff) for wheelchair users, as I once watched someone nearly come a cropper there a few months ago.
Discussed previously here in one of the threads on the Broomhouse path, the crossing under the tram bridge at South Gyle access. It was never up to much while the tramworks were on and now that it's 'finished' it is even worse. Horrible to do by foot or bike.
That's reminded me of the path down the side of Cultins road at the back of Hermiston Gait as well.
Edit: I live close to both and would be happy to get a few photos if needed.
I'm hoping to collect some photos myself - a smartphone is supposed to arrive shortly - but I can't get out and about that much by day, so any and all contributions appreciated.
Any tips on what you are wanting to see in the photos? Is it basically just the pavements and the hard-to-cross road between said pavements?
Are you sure about #2, though? The google street view does suggest there's no green man, but I've run across that junction many times and thought there was a green man there. Maybe I'm just timing it by reading the red lights, though.
There isn't a ped crossing at this junction - no idea why not. Ditto for the crossing at Gardner's Cres/Morrison St. Probably don't want to slow down cars.
"
4. Assess the need for further support for walking as a travel mode such that it is encouraged and supported in the way that cycling is.
"
http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11820
@mkns. Anything that you think shows how unfriendly the road us for peds
Thanks!
Didn't manage any pictures of it but there are some good examples of traffic-light-poles-set-really-far-back-from-the-kerb-creating-ped-pinch-points at the crossing between EP and Hermistron Gait, as well as that narrow-island staggered-junction opposite Makro.
You could likely make an afternoon of wandering about Edin park/Hermiston/Gyle area picking out dodgy bits for both bikes and peds.
@allebong my routes pretty constrained by work/family obligations and I'm not likely to get out that way anytime soon. so all suggestions and contributions greatly appreciated.
A few thoughts I had the other day:
1. After/during heavy rain, walking around Edinburgh becomes a game of trying to dodge spray from puddles. Better drainage (and lower speed limits) would help.
2. Dropped kerbs on side roads are often set back from the main road due to the large circumference of the turn into the side road. This has the double effect of not having a sight line down the main road and cars turning into the side road being able to do so at speed due to the relaxed corner.
3. Bus shelters awkwardly placed on narrow pavements leaving not enough space to either side. Lots of examples but the first stop heading east on Cluny Gardens is a good example.
A not particularly clear shot of a flooded pavement.
Flooded footway and road, Russell Road by ccbb7766, on Flickr
An annoyingly narrow section of pavement, Morningside.
Narrow pavement, Morningside by ccbb7766, on Flickr
SRD - it is also worth considering things that can't be photographed. A key one is a lack of public seating on main pedestrian routes. No problem for us perhaps, but a real issue for the less mobile/elderly etc - who might be put off from walking by the fact they can't take a breather en route. I'm not talking about places like the Meadows but streets like Leith Walk, Lothian Road and so on.
I would also suggest that short green man phases on some pedestrian crossings are very off putting to many people.
Maybury Road at Craigs Road:
...hmm, how do you embed a Flickr photo in here?
this is how i do it: Click on the 'share' icon. there is an 'grab html/bbcode' option. in the window copy an paste the middle bit with [ img ] and [ /img ] - paste that bit only into the forum box. voila!
Winner. Maybury Road at Craigs Road:
SRD, if you want me to add this to your Flickr group thingy, you're probably going to have to tell me how to do that, too...
Thanks mkns.
does anyone have pics from when argyle place was closed, before the temp lights went up? or similar?
am thinking i really need video to do a lot of this juctice - cars whooshing by while peds stand hopeless; cars failing to observe HC rule 170; peds standing beside empty road waiting for green man etc
IIRC there might be a useable photo in the thread about the Argyll Place closure?
I might have a trundle-past video of the pre-restored non-crossing. What was the approximate date of the works starting?
I would also suggest that short green man phases on some pedestrian crossings are very off putting to many people.
I was reading today about the difference between Pelican and Puffin crossings. The puffin is the one with the pedestrian signal lights mounted above the button on the pole, not high up the pole on the opposite side of the road.
Apparently a puffin has pedestrian detectors on it which are meant to ensure that the lights don't change in favour of cars while someone is still crossing. It also means that if you press the button and cross before it changes that it should reset itself until the button is pressed again.
"I would also suggest that short green man phases on some pedestrian crossings are very off putting to many people."
Filming/timing the crossing between the Haymarket trambles platform and Rosebery Crescent would be very demonstrative of how little time pedestrians are given. Perhaps get a stooge granny to lug a heavy-looking suitcase across to highlight how the ped-green phase is about a quarter of what might be considered reasonable.
Apparently a puffin has pedestrian detectors on it which are meant to ensure that the lights don't change in favour of cars while someone is still crossing.
Yes, you can see the sensors mounted at the top of the light pole, they're similar to the ones used for some traffic lights. Although they can't be the same, as they have no problems sensing pedestrians still on the crossing, unlike the traffic sensors that stubbornly refuse to acknowledge bikes.
Incidentally I believe the highway code states for non-sensing crossings where you get a flashing amber phase, you must give way to peds already on the crossing, regardless of where they are on it. Even if they're almost off it and not impeding you, you still can't legally go until they're totally off it. Not a commonly adhered to rule from what I've seen.
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