Cyclists stay back stickers « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Cyclists stay back stickers

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Started 10 years ago by chdot
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chdot
Admin

"
Dear Colleague,

This is just to remind you that in London there is now a plethora of Cyclists stay back stickers on the backs of vehicles where these signs are inappropriate and likely to accommodate careless driving. I specifically refer to those vehicles - vans, minibuses etc. - where cyclists on the near side of the vehicle are easily visible for any driver using their nearside wing mirror in the required manner.

I emphasise that the issue I refer to is not ttheir presence on HGVs where such stickers can be appropriate, nor the precise wording to cyclists on such stickers. I am referring to other vehicles where drivers can and should be using their nearside mirrors to avoid hitting cyclists in manoueuvres such as left hand turns.

Today I passed a van in TfL Buses livery with a Cyclists stay back sticker and - wait for it - a BLACK CAB (HACKNEY CARRIAGE) with one!

This issue can be resolved by TfL FORS sending messages to members to remove stickers from inappropriate use and to remind drivers of the need to use nearside mirrors. The advice on this important requirement can be found in the Highway Code in Rules 159, 161, 163, 169, 179, 180, 182, 184, and 202.

Just a note to remind you that this issue is not only not going away but getting worse. Do take a look at Colin McKenzie's piece here http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/12/18/cyclists-stay-back/

On a lighter note, a Chinese colleague reminds me that It is Chinese New Year today. I wish you a happy Year of the Horse! 马年马到成功！

Best regards,

Dr Robert Davis, Chair Road Danger Reduction Forum

"

Posted 10 years ago #
neddie
Member

I'm not a fan of notices, because in general they don't work.

Posted 10 years ago #
le_soigneur
Member

Notices can work when they are informative - "left hand drive" on a roadsweeper etc and they trust you to make your own judgement.
However these notices are not part of the highway code & have too many exceptions - are you supposed to stay back when traffic is at a standstill? Or when there is a cycle lane? Of course not. So if you ignore them then, you probably ignore them for a black taxi. Then you ignore them for a lorry, when you shouldn't. But the fact that there are so many of them on inappropriate vehicles DILUTES the credibility of them on suitable vehicles.

Posted 10 years ago #
adamthekiwi
Member

Oooh, perhaps we could make something similar, saying "Taxis - Don't be a c***" to stick on the back of the bike?

Posted 10 years ago #
ARobComp
Member

If you notice this notice you'll notice that this notice is not worth noticing...

Posted 10 years ago #
Try Cycle
Member

the biggest problem with these will be drivers who think the stickers are fair warning. if someone gets injured or worse and the driver says "look I had a sticker so the cyclist had fair warning".

Wouldn't be overly surprised if its considered an adequate defence for dangerous/reckless/inconsiderate driving

Posted 10 years ago #
EddieD
Member

I wonder if I could make up a few sheets of "Drivers take care" or "Give cyclists space" and slap them on the back of vehicles as I cycle

Posted 10 years ago #
algo
Member

I had a Dutch flatmate in 2002 who printed stickers explaining the use of ASZs from the highway code and stuck them on people's windows if they abused them. I found this pretty brave - I wouldn't have the courage I don't think, but I like that idea EddieD :-)

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"

The Road Danger Reduction Forum is pleased to join colleagues in the London Cycling Campaign; CTC: the national cycling charity; RoadPeace: the national charity for road crash victims; and TABS: the Association of Bikeability Schemes to explain our concerns to, and ask for action from, Transport for London on this matter.

"

http://rdrf.org.uk/2014/02/19/action-on-cyclists-stay-back-stickers/#more-1249

Posted 10 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

wow. strong stuff.

do';t get why CTC would back this but still stomach the nicewaycode.

Posted 10 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

do';t get why CTC would back this but still stomach the nicewaycode.

Haven spoken at length, in person, to the CTC CEO (Gordon Seabright) on the Nicewaycode matter and all his opinions about it, it's a remarkable piece of double think for them to back one but not the other

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

http://rdrf.org.uk/2014/04/30/inadequate-reply-from-tfl-over-cyclists-stay-back-stickers

Posted 10 years ago #
steveo
Member

I noticed a very similar notice on one of the brand new hybrid LB Number 1. Do not pass on the left I think, from memory of their awareness day, the left side of the bus has as good visibility as a car.

Posted 10 years ago #
Uberuce
Member

When I was there with Kappers and DaveC riding laps round a fairly old bus(they had to use that because the new fleet has better mirrors) I remember that you're in view when skirting right up beside the left as if filtering, but more than ~1m further left and you're gone.

Other way round on the right hand side.

Posted 10 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

brand new hybrid LB Number 1

You mean the madder and golden bin lorry?

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Sometimes it makes sense.

Posted 10 years ago #
recombodna
Member

What's the opposite if cyclists stay back??? I want one of those for the back of my van

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"

“TfL says it knows of no evidence that these stickers are changing drivers’ behaviour, but that’s only because nobody has looked for the evidence. However an inquest has been told that a deceased cyclist had failed to observe a “cyclists stay back” sticker, as if that somehow meant they were at fault. We also know of a case where a cyclist, who had been cut up and abused by a left-turning lorry driver, phoned up the company’s “How’s my driving” reporting line, only to be told that he was in the wrong because the lorry had a “cyclists stay back” sticker. If that’s how these stickers are affecting people’s attitudes, it seems pretty obvious that they will worsen people’s behaviour too.

"

http://rdrf.org.uk/2014/05/30/transport-for-london-show-contempt-for-danger-reduction-and-cycling/

Posted 9 years ago #
KarenJS
Member

I saw a smallish van with one on today and it really annoyed me, why should I stay back? It's not a long vehicle so there's no justification. If a van can do it then why not cars? Are we going to have to stay behind all traffic? Really infuriating, and worse it's dangerous.

Posted 9 years ago #
KarenJS
Member

And this is edinburgh, not London, are they spreading?

Posted 9 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Good question.

They certainly seem to be increasing in both those cities.

Presumably some big companies might put them on all their fleet...

Posted 9 years ago #
skotl
Member

What chdot posted is shocking. As if a sticker absolves a driver of any responsibility.

I read it as "Cyclists stay back.... or else..."

Sad times :(

Posted 9 years ago #
twinspark
Member

So... In terms of shifting "blame" back where it belongs the majority of the time, do we need to sport "official" looking signs saying for example " Pass to the right leaving 3m clearance". "Do not pass if you intend to cross my trajectory in the next 30s". "Motorists keep back"? Anything else cyclists feel like making up?! Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that?

Posted 9 years ago #
KarenJS
Member

Motorists stay back appeals :-)

Posted 9 years ago #
algo
Member

There's a guy in London (I think) who's been making these parodies -

https://twitter.com/Sueperb2/status/462174013583011840/photo/1

Posted 9 years ago #
acsimpson
Member

A motorists stay back (home) one would be nice too.

The most alarming one in the rdrf blog post is "Cyclists please be aware this vehicle may be turning left". Surely that's what indicators are for.

Posted 9 years ago #
algo
Member

(grabbed from the twitter post mentioned above)

Posted 9 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Just another morning in Edinburgh -

Posted 9 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Tuesday -

Posted 9 years ago #
KarenJS
Member

Well it's obvious who's to blame if there's an accident then... I find this quite scary, it's a disclaimer of responsibility.

Posted 9 years ago #