CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

"school run set to be banned in 5 city streets"

(182 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by SRD
  • Latest reply from toomanybikes

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  1. PS
    Member

    This is why I'm looking forward to driverless cars - all it will take to stop a car will be a child stepping out in front of it. People will have to take up cycling to get anywhere at any speed (even more so than now).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. Gresham Flyer
    Member

    How would all the positive posters react if a P7 pupil stepped out in front of you and your possibly younger child and forced you both to stop whilst on your bike? Fine... as long as we weren't held up for too long?.... Just askin'

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. stiltskin
    Member

    In the days before motor cars, roads were used as market- and social gathering- places. Residents could trade home made goods, chat and kids play.
    Ever wondered what a post horn was for?
    I do think this sort of thing is romanticised a touch. Plenty of people got run over by horses and the streets were also used as a convenient sewer/rubbish dump. Do you want to go back to that?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. Firedog
    Member

    I do think this sort of thing is romanticised a touch ... streets were also used as a convenient sewer/rubbish dump. Do you want to go back to that

    That's a straw man argument. I don't see the link between people reclaiming the streets and the return of medieval open sewers.

    The streets of my youth were neither dirty nor sewer filled. But they were pretty full of kids.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. Firedog
    Member

    This is why I'm looking forward to driverless cars - all it will take to stop a car will be a child stepping out in front of it.

    That alone will probably consign driverless cars to commercial failure.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. stiltskin
    Member

    You were a child before the motor car?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. Roibeard
    Member

    How would all the positive posters react if a P7 pupil stepped out in front of you and your possibly younger child and forced you both to stop whilst on your bike

    That's a not uncommon occurrence both on carriageways and shared infrastructure.

    Standard operating procedure is to gently manoeuvre round any pedestrians, at a walking pace.

    No drama,

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. PS
    Member

    That alone will probably consign driverless cars to commercial failure.

    That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. :D Not sure you can avoid that without letting the cars run folk down, like Volvo seemed to be proposing in their recent Twitter poll.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Charlethepar
    Member

    @urchaidh

    @Charlethepar

    Most people who do X can be described as Z-ish.
    - Fair enough, statistically there will be at least one way
    of categorizing a majority for most Xs.

    I can therefore assume that any person doing X is Z-ish.
    - <family fortunes klaxon>

    Ha ha

    But surely I can say that the most likely first observation of someone doing X exhibits Z-like features. Therefore, if I am painting a word picture to illustrate a point, it is not unreasonable to put a Z-featured Xer in the picture.

    The exception to this is the claim that all taxi drivers are fat cyclist-hating psychotics, which is true for 100% of my observations so far.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Rob
    Member

    Volvo's poll was more about driving off a cliff vs through a pedestrian (or hitting someone else's car off the cliff to slow yourself).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Charlethepar
    Member

    Driverless cars will either have to be real AI smart, and imbued with the Asimov laws of robotics or dumb enough to just stop whenever faced with uncertainty. Anything in between is probably doomed to disaster.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. stiltskin
    Member

    The exception to this is the claim that all taxi drivers are fat cyclist-hating psychotics, which is true for 100% of my observations s
    Meanwhile on citytaxidriveedinburgh, someone is saying 100% of cyclists are sanctimonious tree-hugging vegans....

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. Charlethepar
    Member

    The exception to this is the claim that all taxi drivers are fat cyclist-hating psychotics, which is true for 100% of my observations s
    Meanwhile on citytaxidriveedinburgh, someone is saying 100% of cyclists are sanctimonious tree-hugging vegans....

    I know which I would rather meet.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. Rob
    Member

    "Volvo's poll was more about driving off a cliff vs through a pedestrian (or hitting someone else's car off the cliff to slow yourself)."

    Which is actually very interesting. My initial thought was that I'd rather limit the number of cars out to kill me to my own. However, it just occurred to me that would mean pedestrians/cyclists/normal cars could chase mine off a cliff.

    Sorry, were we talking about schools or something? Also, not a vegan.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. urchaidh
    Member

    @Charlethepar Therefore, if I am painting a word picture to illustrate a point, it is not unreasonable to put a Z-featured Xer in the picture.

    You go right ahead. Try it out IRL, maybe try using race, gender or sexual orientation as your 'Z'. Let us know how you get on.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. Gresham Flyer
    Member

    @Roibeard -I guess what you've done there is interpreted "forced you both to stop" as "milling about in front of you". I dont know how you "gently manoeuvre round" someone who is forcing you to stop.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. Roibeard
    Member

    If a pedestrian entirely blocks the path, then you stop, and ask to pass? I suppose I assume that cycles are much more permeable... We've never had an issue with going round pedestrians, even when they've been playing in the road, or stopping us for their amusement.

    I don't see a reason for cycling into pedestrians. There might be an exception for a pedestrian seeking to assault us, but then outpacing them in the opposite direction has worked to date!

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. stiltskin
    Member

    As an aside. (& I appreciate this is not exactly the same as the incident we are discussing). I have just cycled along Carrington Road & seen some young scamps walking 3 abreast on the outside of the line of parked cars. I don't know what the elderly lady in the car who looked rather scared as they refused to let her past was thinking, but I suspect she rather thought they were Neds being Neds rather than fearless environmental campaigners.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. urchaidh
    Member

    As a few other comments have suggested, the fundamental issue is about sharing the space equitably. At the moment there is a clear hierarchy, cyclists and pedestrian are regularly forced to stop and wait. On busy streets with lights and crossing this cuts both ways but on quieter residential streets (at least) why is received opinion that motor vehicles have absolute right of way. No one should be forced to slow down stop, they should do so voluntarily and as required because they're sharing the space.

    Obviously, anyone deliberately impeding the progress of another just for the hell of it is in the wrong, though if it a protest then...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. Rob
    Member

    "anyone deliberately impeding the progress of another just for the hell of it is in the wrong"

    How do you tell what someone's motivation is? I've been yelled at for refusing to ride in the door zone. They probably thought I was being an arse and forcing them to wait 10s.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. steveo
    Member

    thought they were Neds being Neds rather than fearless environmental campaigners.

    I expect a certain subset of the population thinks the same of POP...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. acsimpson
    Member

    It's not just kids and driverless cars that are at it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/wheelchair-user-blocks-and-taunts-lamborghini-driver/

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. urchaidh
    Member

    @Erob - right/wrong would be down to your actual intent, rather than anyone's judgement of your intent.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    Loving the thread drift people! :-)

    'Mon the P7s!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. Charlethepar
    Member

    Urchaidh

    "@Charlethepar Therefore, if I am painting a word picture to illustrate a point, it is not unreasonable to put a Z-featured Xer in the picture.

    You go right ahead. Try it out IRL, maybe try using race, gender or sexual orientation as your 'Z'. Let us know how you get on."

    Isn't that called 'telling a joke.'?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/yourtown/oxford/15909630.COLUMN__On_Yer_Bike___Is_it_time_to_close_roads_and_stop_cars_doing_the_school_run_/

    In Edinburgh, six primary schools took part in a pilot scheme of road closures, which have now become permanent. These rely on volunteer time to supervise the road closures, and schools have been requesting police support to issue tickets to drivers who flaunt the ban.

    How much flaunting is going on?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. rider73
    Member

    doesnt this just push the traffic into other side streets instead of near the school...?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. Frenchy
    Member

    doesnt this just push the traffic into other side streets instead of near the school...?

    Even if it does, that'd be a good thing.

    But I don't think it will. The vast majority of traffic on these streets at those times is people dropping off their kids. If they can't use these streets then they'll either have to park further away and walk the last stretch (a good thing), or not drive at all (an even better thing!).

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. crowriver
    Member

    "doesnt this just push the traffic into other side streets instead of near the school...?"

    Yes it does, but arguably that is safer as we don't get rushed school run parents parking up on pavements outside the school, blocking exits, executing three-point turns and accelerating away when there are small children attempting to cross the road or simply walk on the pavement.

    Not to mention localised air pollution and its effects on smaller people who are physically much closer to exhaust tailpipes than adults...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. crowriver
    Member

    ---

    ...58.4 per cent of children travel to The Cherwell School by bike, making it the UK’s number one school for cycling. It is no coincidence that the school is served with a fully segregated cycle track leading to its gates, and a full programme of fun cycling activities and support for safe cycling.

    ---

    Posted 6 years ago #

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