There will be a formal consultation, but I do think emails to councillors and community councillors would be good. So few people ever contact the community councils, that one or two emails can have a real effect on their inputs (I would also encourage you to go to their meetings/look at their formal contribution and make sure it reflects your inout). It seems likely that folk will contact them to object, so worth you getting in your viewpoint, and ensuring that their contribution is at least balanced.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
20 mph - consultation coming soon
(256 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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EEN has kindly responded to my request for a better map (request to council so far unanswered).
http://www2.jpscotland.co.uk/en/edinburghwest20mph.pdf
http://www2.jpscotland.co.uk/en/edinburgheast20mph.pdf
a bit better, but not as good as what council has and should be able to make available.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The rural west PDF claims the B924 from Burnshot up to Dalmeny Estate is an "existing 50/60mph" road, but its actually a 40mph limit.
Allegedly. If those wee signs count for anything.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Just seen on the map that there are "part time 20mph" streets?!
Really? Outside schools during school hours only or something?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Saw that too, K. I assume that it denotes current part-time 20mph streets (they are next to schools) that will become full-time 20mph. Would be very odd for them to stay part time seeings as most of them would be surrounded by full-time 20mph areas.
Posted 10 years ago # -
the one otuside watsons is a good example. i will be campaigning for colinton road to be 20mph. it's not just the school,. but also lots of nurseries and parks.
Posted 10 years ago # -
From SRD's link:
But despite being marked as potential 20mph areas in the draft plan, a network of major arterial routes such as Queen Street, Leith Walk and the westbound A8 are expected to remain either 30mph or 40mph as transport chiefs attempt to promote public transport and make the city more appealing to walkers and cyclists.Definitely need to add voices in support of the proposals, although how anyone can argue that you need a 30mph limit on Queen Street is beyond me, given that you invariably hit at least one red light along there anyway...
Posted 10 years ago # -
and make the city more appealing to
walkers and cyclistspeople.
FTFY (them).
Posted 10 years ago # -
@PS Lesley Hinds has said several times that she didn't think Queen st was enforceable at 20mph.
seemed to me a good reason that it ought to be.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yes, the part-time 20mph sections are for schools. I assume they are not shown as full-time is simply to denote that the current maximum restriction in speed (i.e. 20mph) won't be altered, although a caption in the key to say that they would be changed to full-time 20mph would be less ambiguous. Very pleased to see almost everything around be will be 20mph, especially as my street is heavily used as a cut-through.
Realistically though, we know that it will be impossible to enforce these limits on such a wide scale so it will need a sea change in drivers' attitudes to restrictions on their 'right' to drive as they please. You have to start somewhere though.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@ SRD
""@PS Lesley Hinds has said several times that she didn't think Queen st was enforceable at 20mph."
seemed to me a good reason that it ought to be. "
Precisely. Surely (as I've said in my previous post), enforcing any of these limits is 'unenforceable' without the cameras and manpower to oversee them. Does that mean we shouldn't try?
Posted 10 years ago # -
The thing about Queen Street is that there is LOTS of room for 'proper' segregated cycle lanes - would significantly reduce the racetrack 'feel' (and perhaps stop the road collapsing into QS Gardens!
The actual (average) speed is significantly controlled by all the lights - but these probably contribute to the 'must put my foot down to get to the next set of lights' mentality.
QS is seen as a 'major through road* which couldn't possible be expected to not be 30' (with or without enforcement). The reality of the lights (and the phasing) is such that people have to work hard (with the right foot) to get to 30 for the briefest of time/distance (who is paying for their petrol?).
There are people at the Council who believe that impeding 'traffic flow' increases pollution.
As it's impossible to remove the lights because of the grid nature of the New Town (can't see mini roundabouts working), perhaps it would just be better to ban motor traffic!
* major through road from the tram restricted York Place to the constriction of Randolph Crescent.
Posted 10 years ago # -
There's also some confusion around Corstorphine High Street which isn't really a shopping area but I guess is being confused with St Johns Road. Although the latter being on the A8 might apparently be excluded.
The motoring lobby analysis by Neil Grieg is also slightly more palatable than normal. He doesn't want to see the police clamping down on motorists doing 25 on a 30 road (fair enough). He also states that good design would be part of successful implementation and doesn't want to see wide roads which look like 30s becoming 20s. Presumably the solution to this is wider shared use pavements or installation of segregated cycleways to reduce the available carriageway space.
For some reason though he doesn't think the police have the technology to enforce 20mph speed limits.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It would seem to me that a speed limit on a wide straight street like Queen Street would be eminently enforceable - loads of clear sightlines for the speed cameras.
Of course, once you put the segregated cyclelanes and buslanes on there, the resulting reduced space for cars will make drivers more careful (and slower) going along there.
[Not sure whether Queen Street falls into the category of Strategic Retail Street or Strategic Employment Street (or even, increasingly, Strategic Residential(high density) Street) but either way the proposed Edinburgh Street design guidance would suggest for bikes "Recommended = Mandatory lanes or Separated Lanes where appropriate/feasible (Particular at Higher Traffic Volumes/Speeds)" and "Consider Bus lanes". Time for some joined-up thinking from the Council - it is their own (proposed) guidance so they need to implement it consistently.]
Posted 10 years ago # -
The Evening News delivers their opinion:
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/comment-leave-the-main-routes-unchanged-1-3426530
"Do we really want Leith Walk at 20mph? Queen Street? Willowbrae Road? Joppa Road? Old Dalkeith Road?
These are key arterial routes in and out of the city, not only for commuters, but for businesses."
...
"But who exactly is demanding this change?
If the Edinburgh Evening News is any barometer, the issues our readers care about are potholes, bad parking, trams and motorists and cyclists ignoring red lights."
EEN = baromoter = LOL
Posted 10 years ago # -
EEN: "No-one is petitioning on 20mph zones,"
That is a hubristic, arrogant misapprehension on the part of the EEN editor. PLENTY of people have been asking for 20mph across the city.
The EEN and its commentariat need to remember that motorists are a MINORITY in Edinburgh.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Does change need to be demanded? Isn't the fact that this change will reduce accidents, injuries and improve the environment for everyone not good enough reason to do this?
Why do "key arterial routes" need a 30mph speed limit? Do they cease to serve this function if the limit is reduced to 20mph? Perhaps the many residents who live along these roads would be keen to seem them as nice places to be - rather than just traffic corridors.
Also "road safety charity the Institute of Advanced Motorists." - I've heard it all now!
Posted 10 years ago # -
"There's also some confusion around Corstorphine High Street which isn't really a shopping area but I guess is being confused with St Johns Road. Although the latter being on the A8 might apparently be excluded."
It's difficult to tell from the map (come on Council, get a hi-res one published!) but it looks to me like St John's Road is going to be 20mph between Drumbrae and just past Clermiston Road, which would be welcome. I would argue that it could even be extended further to just past the zoo/Pinkhill.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It seems the 'anti' brigade are marshalling their forces, and the local paper is backing them. They want to keep arterial routes as they are.
'Pro' campaigners need to get organised and lobby the Council hard to keep as much of the propsals intact as possible.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The EEN's backwards economic logic is that the prosperity and wellbeing of the city is driven solely by the maximum theoretical speed at which motor vehicles can drive through it.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm intrigued to know why they've marked the Water of Leith walkway between Juniper and Balerno as 30mph!!
See the West map...
Posted 10 years ago # -
"The EEN's backwards economic logic is that the prosperity and wellbeing of the city is driven solely by the maximum theoretical speed at which motor vehicles can drive through it."
Private cars are prayer wheels, so the greater their volume and the faster their speed, the more the mighty TraffoFlux is pleased.
Willowbrae Road frequently sports clouds of schoolchildren attempting to cross it to get between houses/bus-stops and that school on Duddingston Road West. Willowbrae Road has a couple of very narrow pinch-points towards the Jock's Lodge end, even if some of the rest of it is aspirational two-lane whizzway. Leith Walk feels like two single-sided streets separated by a noisy, foul-smelling wall. Making the roads slower reduces the 'need' to stick in miniature turn-off filter sections to prevent the people wanting to turn off from 'holding up' the people not turning off.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Full paper now on council website.
Apparently the high resolution maps will only be made public after/if the report is approved.
Posted 10 years ago # -
PDFs can handle vector data, so why have they put in unreadable rasterised maps?
Posted 10 years ago # -
SRD - how on earth did you manage to find that report on the council website? What section is it under?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
North Team (@north_team)
09/06/2014 13:05
Live in Drylaw/Telford? Come discuss 20mph proposals for ur area! In Stockbridge Lib, Tues 17th, 7.30pm @Edin_NPs"
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
North Team (@north_team)
09/06/2014 13:06
Live in Craigleith/Blackhall? Come discuss 20mph proposals for ur area, Stockbridge Lib, Tues 17th, 7.30pm @Edin_NPs bit.ly/1tXV62D"
Or - 'live anywhere, go anyway'!
Posted 10 years ago # -
good quality map now available
http://217.174.251.127/transport/20mphconsultation.htm
can any find a legend? I can work out what the colours mean, but it seems like there ought to be one easily accessible.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Press the map pin symbol.
Posted 10 years ago #
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