CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Good piece of CEC cycle infrastructure

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    After all the fuss about Leith Links and the "List for Lesley", listing things that weren't/aren't 'right', someone has asked -

    "example of a well built scheme / piece of the network that was right from the time it was built?"

    Not a trick question or another way to trip up the council 'because there aren't any'.

    The point is (assuming there are things that will get a grudging 'not bad' from 'us') to try to work out "why" - 'good idea', 'good consultation', 'good contractors', 'lack of conflicting aspirations', 'enough money available' etc.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. gkgk
    Member

    Canaan lane, one way but two-way for bikes.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. Snowy
    Member

    Good question, and when I started thinking about it, all of the bits of cycle infrastructure that I enjoy using are the cycle/pedestrian paths ie facilities with no motor traffic.

    (I say 'enjoy' because while I certainly have no problem cycling on road in the city, it's certainly stressful, to the extent that many people don't feel safe enough to do it at all.)

    So I'd give a big thumbs up to the cycle/ped paths; whether segregated or shared, I think they work really rather well.

    To your final paragraph, generally, the main failures of these paths are 1)where they interface with the general road system and 2)the fact they simply aren't joined up. But that's not to detract from the paths themselves, which at the risk of over-generalising, I think are a great facility.

    So why did they happen? Speculating but perhaps...relatively cheap to do, and didn't/don't involve the (allegedly unpopular) taking away of space from King Car? And the reason they don't get joined up is because the joining up would not meet those criteria?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Meanwhile on CCE before:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4466#post-47330

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. acsimpson
    Member

    I'm trying to decide if allowing bikes to go both ways on Cammo Walk fits the criteria. It has an island at the top to ensure cars don't encroach on access but they're not much in the way of protection further down the road to ensure you don't come round a blind bend into the path of a car.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I think Cammo Walk was less about making good cycling infrastructure and more about stopping people cutting the corner between the A90 and Maybury.

    I fail to understand why it's not closed entirely to through traffic.

    It also dumps you out at either end on dreadful dual-carriageways, and isn't connected to other parts of the network, so it would fail my own personal tests for what makes a good bit of infrastructure.

    Apart from the lamp-post bases, the new path betwixt Stenhouse and Balgreen is good, as is the resurfacing and some improvements on the Balgreen to Corstorphine.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. paul.mag
    Member

    The bus lanes on costorphine road & glasgow road are good to have but not sure they qualify as good cycling infrastructure as they are intended to be used more for buses and taxis

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. Stickman
    Member

    "The bus lanes on costorphine road & glasgow road are good to have but not sure they qualify as good cycling infrastructure as they are intended to be used more for buses and taxis"

    And at the risk of diverting this thread onto "bad" infrastructure, the bus lane outside the zoo has a ruddy great taxi rank in it - kind of defeats the point if buses/taxis/bikes have to pull out of it in order to avoid parked taxis.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. Stickman
    Member

    Good (mostly) - Corstorphine/Pinkhill/Balgreen path now linking up with the new Stenhouse path.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    Was the crossing at the upper end of Leamington Walk initially implemented in the state in which it is seen today?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    North Edinburgh Path Network is mostly good.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. AKen
    Member

    Mostly Lothian Regional Council created that though, not CEC? (Or am I mistaken?)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    LRC became CEC 1994-5?

    Obviously the bits to west east and mid became the other Lothian authorities respectively.

    NEPN upkeep, gritting now etc good

    Loads of recent year end little improvements.

    Brilliant Tarmac from jenner's suppository to Stenhouse path

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. wee folding bike
    Member

    Brilliant Tarmac from jenner's suppository

    Tried a suppository once. Didn't work at all. You would be as well sticking it up your @r23.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    LRC became CEC 1994-5?

    To be precise, part of LRC and the EDC became CEC.

    The Colinton Kirk graveyard still has a nice EDC metal name plaque at the gate. It had some meaningless, aspirational slogan on it about delivering this or that or something.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. holisticglint
    Member

  17. Kokomo
    Member

    Good to talk about the successes and I agree that most of the good recent CEC infrastructure is paths.
    I particularly like:
    1) Restalrig Railway Path - a good local amenity (especially the ramps - Restalrig Road and Leith Links, new access to Seafield St and the bridge over Seafield Pl)
    2) new tram path next to Carrick Knowe golf course - will be even better when the Balgreen toucan is added
    3) A90 / B924 path improvements done so far
    4) Silverknowes Prom
    5) Rodney Street Tunnel
    6) new ramp onto Ferry Rd Path from South Trinity Rd and path between Innocent and Kings Haugh - both from developers
    7) Christian Path (built by Sustrans)

    Some non path stuff
    1) replacing Gardners crescent roundabout at end of the canal with traffic lights and cycle/ped crossings
    2) toucan crossing across Sir Harry Lauder Rd and path link through fishwives causeway

    Don't know if it was all 'right first time' but food for thought anyway

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. Its_Me_Knees
    Member

    Waiting to see how the Wester Coates eastbound resurfacing turns out. If it banishes the old moonscape for a meaningful length of time, it will be a great improvement.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. Bhachgen
    Member

    I like the mostly continuous signage on the H2EP (Haymarket 2 Edinburgh Park) route. The route isn't perfect as it's largely on-road and it does require a couple of unprotected crossings of busier roads.

    Overall though it's something I'd like to see more of - through routes. I appreciate that the journeys of just a couple of miles are often the ones that facilities are aimed at, but signposting a route through or into a city that links up a few offroad paths via quieter residential streets is a real boon for those traveling longer distances.

    Despite the bus lanes the A8 into town is not the most pleasant experience, and generally better avoided except at quieter times. Of course one can sit down with Google Maps, OSM, Spokes Map etc to plan a route like this but then actually navigating it on the ground when there are so many junctions, turns etc can be a proper PITA and potentially lead to a decision that the easier to follow main road route will just be quicker and easier despite the drawbacks.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. One of the best bits, and certainly newest bits of cycling infrastructure is the Carricknowe/Balgreen tramway path.

    Next time you are on it, count how many full width "repairs" there are to it.

    I appreciate they may technically be repairs, but it looks like every lap post has its own u-ground power supply from the tramway - added after surfacing the path. The joins are good, but that's not the point is it. There must be at least a dozen strips on a brand new path that just shouldn't be there.

    I'm really not convinced CEC deserve or are due credit for anything cycle related.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. Radgeworks
    Member

    I have always found the westward only on the setts cycle lane that goes from Richmond Place up the left hand side of Hill Place, to the South Bridge A7 to be well intended but totally ineffective infrastructure, does that count? Radgeworks

    Posted 10 years ago #
  22. Nelly
    Member

    "I'm really not convinced CEC deserve or are due credit for anything cycle related"

    Although - I think this is true - technically they didnt build that path, and will adopt it once the tram has been 'handed over'.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  23. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @Bikeability

    I think what happened there was they built the path first as it was being used during tram construction (shut to the public). They then openened the path. They then installed the lamp posts. They then came back to dig up the path as the electrical services cabling must have been on the "wrong" side of the path.

    A sensible council might have done the above in a different order. It might also have checked which side the electrical cables were on before installing the lamp posts on the opposite side...

    They left the path open but with unfilled trenches in it while they were "remedying" things.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  24. calmac
    Member

    H'lo, long term lurker but this is my first post.

    I have to say, no bit of bike infrastructure that is shared with cars or pedestrians can ever genuinely be described as good.

    I'm generally pretty positive and I believe in encouraging people when they're doing their best. But the modern, shiny infrastructure in Edinburgh is still stone aged compared to how is should be.

    Something I've been doing lately is randomly dropping into roads and junction in the Netherlands on Google streetview. (Sad, but recommended). And what I constantly find is bike paths seperated from both cars and pedestrians by kerbs and reservations. Also, here, when a bike path reaches a road junction it's always, always the cyclist who has to give way, even to the side-road. In the Netherlands it's never like that - the side-road gives way to both the main road and the bike path alongside it.

    As for sharing with pedestrians, if the cars don't have to do it then why should I? Even a fat old slowcoach like me will cycle at a steady 12mph or so, much faster on downhills/ with prevailing wind/ when late for train. That's too fast to come up behind pedestrians. And painting a white line down the middle of a moderately-sized path and sticking an occasional wee white bike or person in each lane is a joke, really. It's never going to be observed, and the bike bit isn't even wide enough for passing.

    Until we get anything like what the Dutch take for granted, anywhere in the city, then we shouldn't be bigging up the improvements, because they're not good enough.

    Someone should take the council officials in charge to somewhere like Rotterdam and say "that. Do that".

    Posted 10 years ago #
  25. HankChief
    Member

    @Bikeability I like the mostly continuous signage on the H2EP (Haymarket 2 Edinburgh Park) route.

    I was thinking about this route only yesterday - long story but someone from out of town was looking to pick up their POP Tshirt from me at my work out West.

    She asked if she could cycle out from Haymarket. I did ponder if I could say follow route 9 and I'm at the end...

    I came to conclusion that it's not at that standard - I'm not sure if the wiggly route it takes it will ever be.

    Once the signs are fixed, I would recommend to someone with some knowledge of Edinburgh layout with a little guidance(i.e. stay between the A8 and the railway line), but not to an out-of-towner.

    We still have a way to go...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  26. a few weeks ago, out of curiosity (and it was a nice day and I was in no hurry to get to work) I followed the signs from haymarket to the gyle.

    I didn't get lost, but it was a bit off my preferred route, and it took me along about half a mile of muddy rutted path (towards Balgreen tramstop)

    It does look like that path has been tarmaced now, but it was really rubbish at the time.

    Again out of interest, on my way home tonight I counted (i know) the strips of full width relayed tarmac on the balgreen tramway path - 19! Nineteen on a brand new bit of infrastructure!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  27. calmac
    Member

    I did the H2EP route this morning for the first time. I was not impressed.

    I know this thread is for good stuff, so I'll keep my criticisms for elsewhere, but worth saying here that I didn't see any route 8 signs before Jenners Depository. Nor are there signs for EP before then - they're for Balgreen, Davidson's Mains and Carrick Knowe. Not much help if you're not familiar with the city.

    In fact, when I came out of Haymarket I didn't see any signs at all. Just tram tracks and a very busy road with buses and coaches queued for the stop.

    Not exactly inviting for the average cyclist, let alone a newbie.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  28. Frenchy
    Member

    Currently in the process of bashing my head against the metaphorical wall regarding the recent changes in Magdalene Glen.

    A council officer tells me that if the gaps between chicane barriers were made too big then the chicane would not have had the desired effect - which was to "make all users aware of each other".

    I think it would be useful to point to counter examples of well-designed chicanes.

    I can't think of any. Any help?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  29. gembo
    Member

    There is a very wide chicane, this forum had widened. It is at hermiston village on the path to Heriot watt. Initally put in by the council as the poor owner of house on that corner was getting cyclists whizzing by. Now the chicane slows the cyclists down so the home owner is happy but the chicane is wide enough for bike and trailer. Oh yes

    Posted 7 years ago #
  30. Frenchy
    Member

    This one?

    Posted 7 years ago #

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