CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Tram 'legacy'

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Time to bring together 'all' the threads on problems that have resulted from tram works and operation, now that it's all the responsibility of CEC and they will 'adopt' all paths etc.

    Haymarket - taxi rank got moved, but 'safe route ' pretty unresolved.

    Broomhouse path - 'forever problem', but key crossing now 'too expensive to deal with'!

    Related - wholly inadequate Cultins Road to Canal 'route'.

    Tram depot entrance..

    Balgreen pelican/toucan.

    York Place crossing at Dublin Street.

    St. Andrew Square generally - still no 'obvious' cycle route(s).

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. HankChief
    Member

    Haymarkets Yards - impossible to cross at 90º and have to ride down middle of tracks.

    Not suitable for the 'family network'.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. steveo
    Member

    Princes St, have to ride down the middle of the tram tracks else be squeezed between stopped buses and the left hand tram track.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    West Maitland Street westbound - de facto banning of cycles from the straight-through route (almost universally ignored).

    All the areas where junctions have been changed and no ASL / bike lanes / feeder lanes put back in due to "lack of space" (someone had an email about this I think that they shared here).

    York Place - oodles of width yet somehow not one bit of it allocated to cycling.

    North St. Andrew Street / top of Dublin street. Completely ruined the pre-existing segregated NCN route here.

    That weird bit of pavement at foot of the Mound for left turns.

    No left turns out of Lothian Road for Shandwick Place or Dalry Road for Haymarket (these previously existeD)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. wingpig
    Member

    No right turn out of the end of Canning Street onto Shandwick Place (and associated changes to one-way-ness of bits of Canning Street).

    Hope Street bus-only restriction.

    I really can't remember what the south end of Queensferry Street originally offered but I'm sure there were more options than just Princes Street.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. steveo
    Member

    Didn't Queensferry Street use to just loop round into Charlotte Square?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. acsimpson
    Member

    It did for many years but was changed in the round of city centre changes in the year or two before the tramworks kicked off.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. paul.mag
    Member

    The stretch of road along the front of Haymarket to the new lights is very very badly cratered plus with the inside lanes in both directions effectively bus and taxi ranks it forces everyone into the outside lanes - not fun when buses are pulling out or cars are overtaking a cyclist on their side of the road so drive straight at you!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. fimm
    Member

    I am almost certain that the left turn out of Dalry Road to Haymarket had gone before the tram works started.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. steveo
    Member

    It did for many years but was changed in the round of city centre changes in the year or two before the tramworks kicked off.

    Ah, yeah I remember now.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I am almost certain that the left turn out of Dalry Road to Haymarket had gone before the tram works started.

    Indeed, but it was one of the weird ones that was there "on paper", i.e. int he TRO but had someohow not been replicated on the ground in signs and/or paint.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. fimm
    Member

    @kaputnik I'm not quite sure what you mean, but my recollection is that it was not possible to turn left at Haymarket before the tram works started. I recall being dropped on the left before the lights because going round to the front of the station involved the same circuit as now.

    (I saw someone make that left turn a couple of weeks ago. They had to stop in a hurry for a crowd of pedestrians who were crossing on a green man without looking out for drivers making illegal left turns. I think they could do with a bigger No Left Turn sign there, it is a bit unintuitive that it is banned.)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Lesley Hinds (@LAHinds) tweeted at 5:39pm - 11 Jun 14:

    @CyclingEdin @EdinburghTrams @Edinburgh_CC @AndrewDBurns @adamrmcvey @SpokesLothian e-mail the list and I will ask for action

    "

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @kaputnik I'm not quite sure what you mean,

    @Fimm what I meant to try and say was that there was a TRO in place on the documents that said "no left turn except cyclists", but as you say no real infrastructure on the ground to let you do that! It was a theoretical left turn (which would be a good thing to avoid going round the Torphicen houses) that was not possible in practice.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "not possible in practice"

    I thought it was the same as (similar to) bottom of Mound and left into Princes Street?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. Colonies_Chris
    Member

    It ought to be possible for bikes to go straight across from Morrison Link to Torphichen Pl rather than having to follow the 1-way system down Morrison St to Haymarket and loop back again. That would avoid having to get tangled up in Haymarket/W Maitland St traffic.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. calmac
    Member

    I was going to post something here, with pics - but I can't work out how to put pics up. I had a rummage and couldn't find an answer. Little help please?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. wingpig
    Member

    [img]http://yoururl.here.jpg[/img]

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. calmac
    Member

    It's not on t'internet though. It's inside my computer.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. fimm
    Member

    calmac it is quite easy if the pictures are on flickr first. I think you have to have the picture uploaded somewhere else, you can't upload the picture directly to the forum.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  21. calmac
    Member

    Ah ok, ta.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. calmac
    Member

    Haymarket Yards - I assume we're not to cross the lines at all, we're supposed to cycle in the 18-inch wide safe haven between the kerb and the tracks. This is just idiotic and a tragic waste of the opportunities presented by the tram works.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/125349824@N05/14219313059

    Coming the other way, before Haymarket, I know there's the weird jug-handle thing, but what in the name of all that's holy is this cycle lane supposed to be about?

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/125349824@N05/14219343478/

    Yes, cross the tram tracks at a shallow angle and then feed onto all the parked buses and coaches without a marked lane at all, and do so on an 18-inch wide stretch.

    Rule of thumb for you CEC - when the cycle lane is so narrow that you have to deform the painted bike on the ground, and you have to paint over the yellow lines, IT'S TOO NARROW!!!

    All of this is pathetic enough, but for them to then badge is as "Route 8", like it deserves to be treated as a cycle route, is embarrassing. Weak links like this one put people off cycling on their daily commute. Get better at making new provision or you're just wasting our time and money.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  23. calmac
    Member

    Ok, I put them on flickr and then put the URLs in the IMG box. What did I do wrong?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  24. minus six
    Member

    nice bollard. is it real?

    looks photoshopped, somehow.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  25. fiets
    Member

    I have this back from the council re Eastbound Queensferry Street at Ryans Bar:

    "The traffic signals which permit "local buses" to proceed in a westbound direction on Hope Street, past Ryans Bar, are a temporary measure designed specifically to accommodate Lothian Buses’ Service 47. The reason for the facility and the reason it is restricted to bus-only is quite involved, so please bear with me.

    While the tram-works diversions were in operation, Lothian Buses took the opportunity to re-route their Service 47 on a trial basis … they took the service off Princes Street and put it on Lothian Road. This has been a great success, so it is to be retained.

    However, under the new junction layout, buses cannot turn left out of Lothian Road — it wasn’t being considered at the time the tram design was undertaken — so a revised, post-tram, design will now be required. This will take time to develop and implement, not least because it will require a new Traffic Regulation Order, so a stop-gap measure is required in the meantime to facilitate the re-routed Service 47. That is the Hope Street contraflow arrangement.

    At the moment the signals on Hope Street come up every cycle. While that works just now, it will not work when tram is operational as there simply isn’t the capacity in the West End junction to allow the signals to be called every cycle. So loop detectors are to be installed on Hope Street (this will be undertaken shortly) which will mean that the Hope Street signals will only be called when needed, i.e. each time a Service 47* bus arrives at the stop line.

    In summary, there are two key points to note about the Hope Street situation:

    1. The current arrangement is temporary and the intention is that the Queensferry Street/Hope Street junction will eventually be returned to its pre-tram-works configuration, i.e. Hope Street will revert to one-way eastbound only for all traffic; and
    2. Junction capacity requires that the temporary Hope Street signals be called as few times as possible, i.e. generally only every fifteen minutes, per the Service 47 schedule, but noting that a very small number of Citylink buses also use the facility. Bicycles, and indeed taxis, cannot be facilitated in the circumstances.

    So in the short-term I am afraid there is nothing which can be done to accommodate westbound cycles on that section of Hope Street. However, my colleagues in the Strategic Planning Cycle Team are looking at further improvements across the city centre and they are aware of the issue at Hope Street. Options for a shared-use footway/cycleway and crossing facility will be considered as part of that work."

    .......Would be great if they could work something out - the cobbles are shocking...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  26. calmac
    Member

    @bax I couldn't manage to post two pictures, you think I'd know how to photoshop?

    Yep, the bollard is real.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  27. Klaxon
    Member

    Options for a shared-use footway/cycleway

    I have visions of the busy pedestrian circulation area outside Ryan's becoming yet another segment of utterly useless, yet signed nonetheless, shared use pavement.

    you think I'd know how to photoshop?

    It does look odd, like the perspective is wrong. Is it a particularly tall bollard?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  28. calmac
    Member

    "Is it a particularly tall bollard?"

    No. But it is a particularly tiny cycle lane, so maybe that's what's throwing you.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  29. cb
    Member

    @calmac, on Flikr there is a share image link (I think it's a square with an arrow coming out of it). If you click that you get various options, but locate the BBCode one and choose an appropriate image size then copy the BBCode from the box and post it straight into the forum. You don;t need the IMG tags if you do that.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  30. Focus
    Member

    "So in the short-term I am afraid there is nothing which can be done to accommodate westbound cycles on that section of Hope Street."

    Truly pathetic response.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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