CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 14years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
A new thread to discuss 'where Scotland goes from here'.
David Cameron just started speaking -
'fair to people in Scotland and rest of UK'
'people of Scotland, we hear you'
'change'
'Lord Smith of Kelvin in charge.'
'new and fair settlement'
'West Lothian Question needs decisive answer'
'need greater civic involvement'
'need everyone - however they voted - to come together'
Wikipedia moves fast!
"
Current commitmentsEdit
He is currently Chairman of Scottish and Southern Energy and a non-Executive Director of Standard Bank Group Limited. He is also Patron of Foundation Scotland.[citation needed]
On 8 February 2008, Lord Smith of Kelvin was appointed as Chair of the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games organising company.[1] He was announced as the first Chair of the British Green Investment Bank in May 2012.[2]
On 18 September 2014, Lord Smith of Kelvin was appointed as as the chair of the newly formed Scotland Devolution Commission, following the No referendum vote.
"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Smith,_Baron_Smith_of_Kelvin
Well, at least someone has been made responsible for change.
Ketih Brown could learn from that...
So; emotions.
Relieved that nothing much is going to change over the next few years.
Disappointed for exactly the same reason.
Concerned (and unsurprised) about the immediate positioning of tory folk to secure this English votes for English people lark.
Tired.
Massively impressed both with the turnout, the attitude of the massive majority of people, and with 45% of the population of a country voting for significant upheaval in the hope of a better life. As a species we resist change, so for the percentage to be that high is stunning.
What have we learned today, those who campaigned and voted for Yes? That fear conquers hope. That we spent too long talking to ourselves, not enough reaching out to others. That it is nearly impossible to win when the might of the establishment is against you. And yet, we got pretty close. Close enough to extract panicked promises from those in power. For a day, we had the power. More people said they did not want that power, and gave it back. We do need change. The question remains whether we will get it. It's not up to those who voted Yes anymore, it's now in the gift of the Noes.
So many people voted that I feel kind of liberated actually, even though the result makes me cringe.
In some ways the fact that it wasn't anywhere near close ('yes' taking just four of thirty two areas) might make it less divisive? I'll have small sympathy for people moaning about a lot of stuff now. We had the chance to go another way, pretty comprehensively didn't take it. Too late to complain afterwards.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the next election too. Will the SNP explode?
I'm never going to be an SNP voter, but the 'no' campaign has been so negative that I can't imagine myself voting for one of the unionist parties either. Will anyone fill that gap?
The campaign has totally broken any feeling of belonging to the UK that I had before (and I would say that I've never been particularly nationalist). I feel quite distinct from the English and suspicious of the power grab that is now being made.
It's all very well saying we can't vote on what they do with their education or NHS, until you remember that tuition fees south of the border transformed our funding structure, and privatisation of the NHS here will inexorably follow the framework down south. A smart Tory government will put forward legislation that ostensibly impacts England only and thus eliminate the Labour vote - maybe even allowing them to govern as a minority (but England-only majority) government?
Interesting times, for sure.
Back to the same ol' same ol'. We are just a blah country.
Mediocre.
A provincial backwater to London & the home counties.
May as well move to Holland or Denmark. At least they have decent cycle infra. I don't really care about staying here anymore.
For me it's not so much that fear conquered hope but that reality conquered a politicians vague promises. The only promises that politicians keep are the ones that they make to the corporate world. We know that politicians tell the electorate what we want to hear and we know that they don't actually intend doing what they say. I really liked the bold blue sky thinking that the Yes campaign put forward but for me there was no reason why a fraction of it would come true and so much of it was reliant on other countries and organisations.
Will Alex Salmond, having suffered such a defeat call an election? Or stand down?
It really worries me when I agree with stuff that Dave writes...
"Will Alex Salmond, having suffered such a defeat call an election? Or stand down?"
No
"It really worries me when I agree with stuff that Dave writes..."
Which Dave...
Let's look at the facts, something which the No side were so keen on insisting upon. The facts are an unelected peer of the realm has been appointed to oversee whatever crumbs of change the unionist parties can agree amongst themselves to bestow upon Scotland.
We can further extend those facts into conjecture, based on Westminster's prior track record. I'm sure Lord Smith will consult widely, then come up with proposals, which will be amended and watered down just as the Calman proposals were.
Once those are agreed, the quid pro quo, or rather the revenge will come. The Barnett formula will be abolished, and replaced by a "needs based system". Politicians in Wales have already been arguing for this, and no doubt the north of England will too. That will result in a cut to the Scottish block grant, and there will as a consequence be swingeing cuts to the public sector in Scotland.
This may seem overly pessimistic, but these are the ideas that have been put out there during the debate by the No camp. There was no hint in Cameron's speech of anything like what Brown was suggesting, a federal UK will not happen. Devo max will not happen. We will get Devo nano, and a hefty dose of austerity to keep us in our place.
My feeling is that if real change comes at all, it will be for my children's generation to deliver it. We have lost this to the forces of conservatism (with a small 'c' as well as a big one) that have always been present in Scotland. Of course folk who want progressive change will keep on campaigning for what we believe in. I know I will. Better not be poor, or vulnerable, or employed in the public sector though, or else be prepared to suffer.
Not sure where Scotland goes from here but I expect Westminster will take steps to ensure nothing like this can happen again. SNHS funding is proportional to England, so as more services in England are transferred to the private sector, NHS funding to Scotland diminishes. It is already happening.
If Boris J replaces Cameron as leader of Conservative party, the next government may well be a coalition between Cons and UKIP.
Boris and Farage leading the country? Oh God!
I am gutted about the result. I may be idealistic, but I see that as a lost opportunity to show the rest of the UK that we don't have to live with the anachronisms of the house of Lords and Westminster style politics - that it might be possible to properly regulate the banking sector etc…. etc... I am well aware the SNPs economic proposals are as neoliberal as Westminster, but I wasn't voting for the SNP.
Those wishes are also true of an awful lot of my no voting friends - it's the way in which you felt change could be brought about that divided us. I hope the same level of political engagement persists. Unfortunately I agree with @crowriver - we are going to suffer more now.
I agree with you Dave - what choice is there now if you don't like three azure amigos south of the border and don't want to vote for the SNP? Well I personally don't mind saying I have immense respect for Patrick Harvie and I am really hoping that Green support gets stronger as a result of his excellent contribution to the yes campaign.
Gosh, what a lot of negativity.
As someone who was on the fence right up until the night before, I think it's unfair to say that people voting no didn't (or don't) want change.
Independence offered big bang change: high risk with the potential of high reward. I'm in the fortunate position of being comfortable enough to opt for that gamble. If you were just about breaking even each month, I could thoroughly sympathise with you not thinking the same.
It's not now just up to the 47% of the electorate who decided to vote for the union to make this work—Scotland is still the place where all of us live. Everyone here wants life to be better (although we might disagree on what better means).
Similarly to Dave, I wouldn't vote for SNP or any of the major UK parties. Happily, that leaves Green.
The question now is for how many years must we suffer yes claiming it would have been better under iScot (regardless how one voted).
Thoughts.
Well I was *hoping* it would be 55% the other way.
Second *wish* was 51% for Yes - maximum pressure on LibCons/BT.
Meanwhile I'm glad I'm in London avoiding any total (emotional) carnage!
Well I was *hoping* it would be 55% the other way.
Even if it was that close, you'd be dragging 45% of the population kicking and screaming. That isn't the way to try and do things not if you want a cohesive country.
I agree with that. Even at their most optimistic, Yes were trying to create a new country on a relatively small majority. I don't think that is a good idea. It ought to be the settled will of the people, not a 52/48 split. I think it was interesting to see a poll which showed that No voters thought the poll was divisive while only a small number of yes people did. It says something about the nature of the campaign.
" It ought to be the settled will of the people"
You'd have to be constantly shuffling people about to maintain areas of homogeneous opinion.
So toad for breakfast it is. I'm left with a belly full of love and no country to give it to.
Perhaps in years to come I'll strip my sleeve and show my scars.
It was a phrase I thought twice about using, but TBH honest I'm knackered and you all know what I mean.
Give that love to Belgium, IWRATS. Distinctly under-loved country. I can't even persuade Ms DS that it's an appropriate holiday destination.
min "Gosh, what a lot of negativity."
Indeed. This is one of the reasons I've not been on here lately.
I have lost a few friends through this divisive campaign. I have also heard a few 'I should leave this place/this place is crap!' type comments on 'the web'. Very sad state of affairs, but I doubt they'll follow through with their threat.
Certainly my office has polarised. One half breathing a sign of relief, the other half sulking round and grumping and hurrumping.
One for the No voters, currently enjoying victory.
---
Stephen @stephenmilne90
Next year we end up with Tory/Ukip government.
2017 we are voted out of the EU.
Don't you dare complain, you voted for it.
---
But what do you expect? Some believed very strongly that their chosen option was absolutely what's best for them and everyone else. You might disagree with them, but nobody set out to deliberately sabotage the country.
If someone who passionately believed in independence was not even a little down for the next few days at least, I'd be suspicious of their integrity. In fact, I'd be suspicious they were a politician.
Even if it was that close, you'd be dragging 45% of the population kicking and screaming. That isn't the way to try and do things not if you want a cohesive country.
I agree fully with this, but unfortunately we've got a mirror image of the problem because 45% of people are so dissatisfied with the country that they actually voted to destroy it. That's not the path to a cohesive country either (right now I'd not be paying my poll tax, put it that way).
Right at the start of the campaign I came out pretty full-on 'no' but I really wished that we weren't having the debate at all. For me, it was easy to rub along ignoring the nasty bits of the UK until I was forced to really think about it. And there's no easy way back now.
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